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Help to identify this concertina


SteveS

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Spotted on

 

Looks like an Anglo - thumbstraps like an EC but seems to have a much wider hand span of buttons than an Anglo, left hand appears to be low notes.

Any ideas?

 

Steve

Edited by SteveS
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Spotted on

 

Looks like an Anglo - thumbstraps like an EC but seems to have a much wider hand span of buttons than an Anglo, left hand appears to be low notes.

I don't think that is a diatonic instrument. Looks (and sounds) like a Duet fitted with thumbstraps instead of handstraps.

I agree about it being some sort of duet, likely unisonoric and with the left hand being used for "bass". (Edited to add that thanks to David Barnert's following post, I changed my mind, with my new thoughts in the post following David's.) I'm not so sure about the "much wider hand span". While he's playing it, his fingers don't seem to span more than five buttons width... maybe even only four?

 

Five wide would be right for a Crane duet, but I wouldn't rule out a Maccann. In fact, in trying to watch the fingering as he does scale runs -- fairly difficult at that size and since I can't slow it down, -- I think Maccann is more likely. Or possibly a Wheatstone "Double"? That keyboard is four wide, like the English, and those did have thumb straps and (if I remember correctly) no finger plates. But his concertina is octagonal, and as far as I know, the few Doubles that were produced preceded the octagonal design by decades.

 

Not impossible, of course, is some rare or unique duet system, since I know Wheatstone produced a few such oddities.

 

If it is an otherwise standard duet, the thumb straps are interesting, but not necessarily unique. There's a player in Sweden who has fitted his Crane duet with thumb straps, though that's in addition to the hand straps.

 

Can anyone identify the player?

Edited by JimLucas
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Here's another video of the same guy singing the same song with a different concertina in his hands:

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9fdrw_alain-chatry-conf-concert_music

 

Cue to the three minute mark (after watching the annoying advertisement).

 

Sounds like the same arrangement (and therefore likely the same kind of instrument) but this one has hand straps. And, since the view is diagonal from the left, we can see that the left side appears to have two rows of seven buttons.

 

It looks to me like he's playing a bisonoric instrument (different notes on push and pull). The tune is in a minor key, and the progression is primarily just a repeated

 

I minor

VII major

VI major

V major (or 7th)

 

He draws all the I and VI chords and pushes all the VII and V chords, even when it's not just one chord per measure. Same pattern in both videos.

 

I have no clue what the instrument is, but either this guy's got two of them or he fitted the thumb straps some time between the two tapings.

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Here's another video of the same guy singing the same song with a different concertina in his hands:

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x9fdrw_alain-chatry-conf-concert_music

 

Cue to the three minute mark (after watching the annoying advertisement).

 

Sounds like the same arrangement (and therefore likely the same kind of instrument) but this one has hand straps. And, since the view is diagonal from the left, we can see that the left side appears to have two rows of seven buttons.

 

It looks to me like he's playing a bisonoric instrument (different notes on push and pull). The tune is in a minor key, and the progression is primarily just a repeated

 

I minor

VII major

VI major

V major (or 7th)

He draws all the I and VI chords and pushes all the VII and V chords, even when it's not just one chord per measure. Same pattern in both videos.

 

I have no clue what the instrument is, but either this guy's got two of them or he fitted the thumb straps some time between the two tapings.

Well spottted, and analyzed.

And aha!

I think it must be a
, by Colin Dipper. (Thanks to Chris Timson for the page, on his concertina FAQ.)

Note that the instrument Colin is playing in the linked photo has both hand straps and thumb loops. Maybe in the two videos Alain was experimenting first with using just the one and then just the other?

 

I, too, had noticed the ins and outs of particular chords, but I thought that might just be his idiosyncratic style in using a regular duet. I was fooled by the seeming independence of direction on the melody side. But I guess it was only "seeming". A 3-row layout that's three different keys should have most notes available in both directions, anyway, so the melody needn't be dependent on bellows direction or reversals. That would also explain my observation that the fingering pattern was of limited width, though on more than one row, which is consistent with but (obviously) not limited to the appearance of ordinary duet fingering patterns.

Edited by JimLucas
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Hi all, Member "pariselle" attemped to post the following comment here but seems to have hit "report post to moderator" instead of "reply", so I'll paste it in:

 

hello

the concertina is a franglo D/G baritone made by Colin and Rosalie Dipper for Thomas Restoin, but Thomas change his system for a new "Restoin duet" so he sold the concertina to a fine french melodion and mouth organ player Alain Chatry who is playing on that video.

The franglo have an anglo strap on the left and a thumb strap (plus an wrist strap) on the right, we found that system with Colin for my first "franglo" to be able to play on the very long right hand fingerboard with no problems.

it's a sort of anglo concertina with the two sides together on the right hand and a system of bisonore bass and chords on the left

it's exactly the fingering of my two and a half rows melodeon with 14 basses

emmanuel

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Here is a link to a previous topic about Thomas and his Franglo, showing some nice pictures of it, before he sold it. BTW, it was Emmanuel Pariselle himself, a melodeon maker and player, who first suggested the idea of the Franglo to Colin. Colin once described it to me as like a melodeon, but in the size and shape of concertina to make it more portable for taking to festivals.

 

Chris

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Here is a link to a previous topic about Thomas and his Franglo, showing some nice pictures of it, before he sold it.

I don't think that's the same instrument. Your link actually shows three pictures of two instruments: R and L sides of a baritone and R side of a treble. He describes them as unisonoric, and contrasts them with a Franglo.

 

Here is a detail from the video I posted above.

 

post-65-0-32446900-1289177650_thumb.jpg

 

I see two rows of light colored buttons on the left. Of the instruments pictured in Chris's link, the baritone has three rows on the left and the treble has darker buttons, although we cannot see the left side.

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I am not aware that Colin has made any other types of instrument other than traditional concertinas of the various types and the model he calls the Franglo. So, if Thomas' two instruments pictured are not Franglos, I don't know what they are. Certainly the thumb strap and wrist strap pictured on the right-hand side and the hand strap pictured on the left-hand side, are typical of the Franglo system. I might be seeing Colin in person soon and, if so, I can always ask him.

 

Chris

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Here is a link to a previous topic about Thomas and his Franglo, showing some nice pictures of it, before he sold it. BTW, it was Emmanuel Pariselle himself, a melodeon maker and player, who first suggested the idea of the Franglo to Colin. Colin once described it to me as like a melodeon, but in the size and shape of concertina to make it more portable for taking to festivals.

But in the post you link to above Thomas says, "Here are some pictures of my concertinas. ... It is a bit organized like diatonic accordion. But instead of the "chord" above the "bass" (like diatonic or franglo system) the button above the bass is the octave higher." (My emphasis.) I.e., what he is describing is not the franglo "before he sold it", but his new "Retoin" duet which was built to replace the franglo.

 

I am not aware that Colin has made any other types of instrument other than traditional concertinas of the various types and the model he calls the Franglo. So, if Thomas' two instruments pictured are not Franglos, I don't know what they are. Certainly the thumb strap and wrist strap pictured on the right-hand side and the hand strap pictured on the left-hand side, are typical of the Franglo system. I might be seeing Colin in person soon and, if so, I can always ask him.

In an earlier post in the same thread, Thomas says, "I play diatonic and accordion and now I am fortunate to play Colin and Rosalie Dipper's concertina. They made for me two wonderful instruments (baryton and treble) adpated for accordion player. But it is not "franglo" system. It is a kind of customized duet. I will send photos later." Those "later" photos, presumably of both the instruments he mentions, are the ones accompanying the post you linked to.

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hello everybody!! Answer is coming!!At first, please excuse my "broken english" (and how lucky you are: you cannot hear my french accent!)

 

I am Alain Chatry playing this concertina.

 

E. Pariselle told you its strory. It is a franflo, I bought it from Thomas Rastoin (salut Thomas, et encore merci pour m'avoir cédé ce bijou!!), and made By C and R Dipper(hello to you). For me it is really the best you can find, they work so good!

 

28 buttons right hand (3 rows: one is in D, second in G et third sharps and flats); 16 buttons left hand, bass and chords, and some notes just bass, so I have all the half tones in both directions (push and pull) because this instrument is bisonore. Even if it as diatonic accordion fingering, it is a real concertina, made like a concertina. I have an other one, (sold by my friend Emmanuel Pariselle (salut garçon!) made in Italy, but inside it is made like an accordion. You can see (and hear) it on youtube (I play in my room in an hotel somewhere in Laos, during a 3 months bicycle trip last winter):

 

This one is in G/C, with less buttons left hand.

 

The strap on the right hand: there was one, but I took it off; I play quebecois melodeon, and I prefer play just with the thumbstrap.

 

On this forum somebody wrote I had 2 different concertinas but in fact there is the same one. I just have my wonderful C. Dipper (black) and my italien (brown).

 

If you have others questions, don't hesitate.

 

Vive le concertina!!

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hello again,

about the story of the "franglo", my first idea was not to have a more portable melodeon for festivals, but for years I was trying to play the different types of concertinas, first anglo, then english, and Triumph duet and jeffries duet... the instrument so nicely made, the sound unique, was my recherche, I remember dreaming of concertinas for years.

One year I decided (how unconscious I was!)to make my own concertina with the fingeboard I use to play (two and a half rows melosion with 14 basses) I designed the box (mecanism, metal ends, reed pan) and a friend of mine 'Jean Mégly, very good Triumph duet player)said that Colin and Rosalie Dipper are very open mind and they will probably give me some good advices.

So I send my plans to them and a week later I recived a very nice letter with golden heading, warm encouragement and a lot of little plans to correct mine...

After few letters I realised how diferent from the melodeon making was the concertina making and I asked them to make the instrument.

I'd read somewhere that I had to pester Colin on the phone to convince him to make that aberration, not at all, and the best evidence is that Colin made one for him at the same time (a lovely D/G)

Since that time Colin and Rosalie made 3 Franglo for me (a G/C, a A/D and a D/G baritone) and they are wounderfull friends.

They made , in the same feeling a C#/D for Christian Maes and two monosonore duets for Thomas Restoin with a fingering of a chromatic accordion (system Verchuren) on the right and a special 24 basses on the left that you can see on the photos...

all my best

sorry about my english, my french is best!

Emmanuel

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The strap on the right hand: there was one, but I took it off; I play quebecois melodeon, and I prefer play just with the thumbstrap.

 

On this forum somebody wrote I had 2 different concertinas but in fact there is the same one

That was me. I was confused by the thumb loop on one side and the hand strap on the other. It never occurred to me that they could be two sides of the same instrument. Thank you for joining the group and providing your input.

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Here is a link to a previous topic about Thomas and his Franglo, showing some nice pictures of it, before he sold it. BTW, it was Emmanuel Pariselle himself, a melodeon maker and player, who first suggested the idea of the Franglo to Colin. Colin once described it to me as like a melodeon, but in the size and shape of concertina to make it more portable for taking to festivals.

But in the post you link to above Thomas says, "Here are some pictures of my concertinas. ... It is a bit organized like diatonic accordion. But instead of the "chord" above the "bass" (like diatonic or franglo system) the button above the bass is the octave higher." (My emphasis.) I.e., what he is describing is not the franglo "before he sold it", but his new "Retoin" duet which was built to replace the franglo.

 

I am not aware that Colin has made any other types of instrument other than traditional concertinas of the various types and the model he calls the Franglo. So, if Thomas' two instruments pictured are not Franglos, I don't know what they are. Certainly the thumb strap and wrist strap pictured on the right-hand side and the hand strap pictured on the left-hand side, are typical of the Franglo system. I might be seeing Colin in person soon and, if so, I can always ask him.

In an earlier post in the same thread, Thomas says, "I play diatonic and accordion and now I am fortunate to play Colin and Rosalie Dipper's concertina. They made for me two wonderful instruments (baryton and treble) adpated for accordion player. But it is not "franglo" system. It is a kind of customized duet. I will send photos later." Those "later" photos, presumably of both the instruments he mentions, are the ones accompanying the post you linked to.

 

Ooops. I overlooked his earlier post in the thread, in which he refers to the special concertinas Colin and Rosalie made for him. I stand corrected, then.

 

Chris

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