New Vs. Vintage

[m3838]

A lot of Europe is rural, M38238

 

OK, then a nice family carriage or two with some 100 horses is truly a must

It brings dwellers of large urban centers in the US and those who live in small rural villages in Ireland truly together.

I agree with your daughter, btw. She can't possbly enjoy the music, coming simultaniously from two instruments, and she might not even like the sound of concertina. But a holyday in xyz means broadening of the mind, better health. In a way, you'll enjoy that holyday long after you've forgotten about it.

So give her something extra, before she turns 15, when you'll become transluscent phantom for a few years.

[PaddyLosty]

Wow, a week in the field doing research and look at the can of worms I come home to...

 

 

Well, I think I'll follow my initial idea and go with a hybrid for now, as a learner instrument that can still be appreciated for tone, while waiting for a higher end instrument down the road. By the time that rolls around, I'll have a better idea of what I prefer between a vintage or newly made instrument, but I think I will likely go with a new instrument. For the record, I do play Irish music, and it is quite an obsession, so I cant see that changing any time soon. When I began playing the fiddle, I came from playing jazz guitar, so I could appreciate the benefit of good tone. I opted not to buy a cheap ($500) fiddle and instead save for a decent instrument (which I got for a steal, and not much more than the cheapos) which I still play, and get many compliments on its tone. I have just finished an undergrad degree and am starting to work as a researcher, which will hopefully lead to grad school. These are big economic decisions, but I know I will be able to afford a good instrument in a few years, and I will have the time to save. Viewing the buy/sell lately, im not worried about depreciation on value of a hybrid as they seem to be selling near what they cost new (minus the cost of "utility"). Perhaps I'll love the tone of the hybrid and stick with that, but I do love the tone of the traditional reeded instruments I've had the opportunity to play with (and their players).

 

Anyways, I'll be calling Mr. Tedrow, Mr. Edgely or Mr. Morse in the next few weeks and ordering a black wooden ended, jeffries system concertina.

 

Looking forward to learning all these tunes in my head on the new box.

 

Brandon

 

 

 

So, Ive been playing the fiddle for quite some years and know a good load of tunes. Im happy with my fiddle playing, but I most enjoy playing with a small group, usually a flutist friend and my girlfriend on C#/D box. Ive been planning to take up the concertina at some point, and I've been playing around with a Stagi 20 button, and have gotten some tunes down on that instrument, despite the limited range. Ive been saving for a mid-range instrument, and have about enough now for something like and Edgley or Tedrow, or possibly a mahogany Lachenal or Jones. I could save a bit more and get a rosewood Lach as well.

 

My plan is to buy one of these instruments and put a down payment on a Sutner or Dipper soon after. Because of this plan, Im more concerned with playability and responsiveness than true concertina tone, as by the time ive played enough to consider myself a serious player, I'll have a top quality instrument.

 

Which would be the best choice for the meantime? I like the sound of the older instruments, but do they play as crisply as an Edgley? I know opinions would be varied, but I need to inform my decision as there aren't many concertinas (or concertinists) around to compare with.

 

If you prefer not to voice your opinions openly, please PM me.

 

Thanks!

[wntrmute]

A lot of places that are 'rural' in Europe are still pretty densely populated by US standards. Also, from where I've seen, Europe will tend to have a little village surrounded by all the fields. In the rural US, each house is in the middle of its own fields. Generally, there's exceptions, sure. Then again, I've only ever driven in England, Germany, Austria, France, and once in Italy. And I swear before God and His entire Angelic Host that I'll never drive in Italy again. They don't have traffic laws in Italy, so far as I can tell, and to say that there are even suggestions would be to say too much. Anarchy is more orderly.

[m3838]

A lot of places that are 'rural' in Europe are still pretty densely populated by US standards. Also, from where I've seen, Europe will tend to have a little village surrounded by all the fields. In the rural US, each house is in the middle of its own fields. Generally, there's exceptions, sure. Then again, I've only ever driven in England, Germany, Austria, France, and once in Italy. And I swear before God and His entire Angelic Host that I'll never drive in Italy again. They don't have traffic laws in Italy, so far as I can tell, and to say that there are even suggestions would be to say too much. Anarchy is more orderly.

 

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2095/marketstreetau6.jpg Good and orderly public transportation in San Francisco. Who needs a car?

 

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9613/ch...o19098bely9.jpg not so orderly, but still, who needs a car?

Edited June 13, 2008 by m3838

[wntrmute]

I've used the Tube in London, I've used the L in Chicago. I've also suffered through the Metro in DC. Note the different verb. Growing up in Florida, car needed. Living in MD, car needed. Outside of all but a handful (literally about 5) cities in the US, car needed. In Germany and France I found it possible to get to all but a few places using public transport and/or a bike. A big part of that, though, was that the places I was going were on the transport grid -- not big cities by any stretch, but still on the grid. However, I still wouldn't go so far as to say a car is a luxury in Euro-land. There are places (sometimes some of the more interesting less tourist infested places) that are off the grid.

My only point in the post you quoted was that US rural and Euro-rural are two different things. There's farms and ranches in the mid-west the size of Luxembourg. Heck, there's shopping malls the size of Lichtenstein, and postage stamps the size of Monaco (but only in Texas -- everything is over-sized in Texas).

[m3838]

(but only in Texas -- everything is over-sized in Texas).

 

Except the wages.

[Woody]

Well it goes to show that some across the pond have a very strange idea of what "Europe" is like

 

Generalizations seem pretty pointless regarding what is a luxury to an individual and what is not. At the moment both my car and Concertina are not luxuries to me, but if it came down to one or the other it'd have to be the Concertina that went, as where I live day-to-day life would become very difficult without a car. With my current finances, getting a top quality traditional reeded vintage or new instrument would definitely be a luxury - but then I love the sound of my Norman so much I have no desire or need to get one. YMMV

 

FWIW Pgidley I think your plan sounds very sensible & as you say, you'll then have a far better idea of what you really want if you decide to go for a traditionally reeded instrument.

[Mark Evans]

And I swear before God and His entire Angelic Host that I'll never drive in Italy again. They don't have traffic laws in Italy, so far as I can tell, and to say that there are even suggestions would be to say too much. Anarchy is more orderly.

 

He he he... Ah yes dear Italian drivers. Tis' a blood sport and anarchy reins, but I would drive there again in a heartbeat!

 

Driving in the Boston area used to frighten me, but after my Italian baptizm, I laugh at rotories, being cut off...given the finger accompanied with "you f-ing idiot, whatz-a-matter-wid-you!" My Boston brethern cannot match the zeal, fire and crazy abandon of native Italians. Whew!

[McIsog]

m,

 

Great photos! (even if they are not yours)

 

Dan

 

 

 

A lot of places that are 'rural' in Europe are still pretty densely populated by US standards. Also, from where I've seen, Europe will tend to have a little village surrounded by all the fields. In the rural US, each house is in the middle of its own fields. Generally, there's exceptions, sure. Then again, I've only ever driven in England, Germany, Austria, France, and once in Italy. And I swear before God and His entire Angelic Host that I'll never drive in Italy again. They don't have traffic laws in Italy, so far as I can tell, and to say that there are even suggestions would be to say too much. Anarchy is more orderly.

 

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/2095/marketstreetau6.jpg Good and orderly public transportation in San Francisco. Who needs a car?

 

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/9613/ch...o19098bely9.jpg not so orderly, but still, who needs a car?

[McIsog]

We're talking about US here, of course. Car in Europe is an unnecessary luxury

If my car is an unnecessary luxury - how am I supposed to get around? And why is it different for the yanks?

 

Hey Woody,

 

It is different for the (us Yanks because you have efficient, fast, modern rail systems. We let ours go. But our corridors are vastly larger than yours... So it cost us a bit more to keep them up. Instead of maintaining rail - we chose to build the Interstate system - Eisenhower. Our dense national highway system. Some cities maintain large metro rail systems (Chicago, NY, San Francisco). But those are really few. I take the L every day to work on Chicago. Fast, inexpensive and predictably unpredictable.

 

Dan

[david_boveri]

Wow, a week in the field doing research and look at the can of worms I come home to...

 

 

Well, I think I'll follow my initial idea and go with a hybrid for now, as a learner instrument that can still be appreciated for tone, while waiting for a higher end instrument down the road. By the time that rolls around, I'll have a better idea of what I prefer between a vintage or newly made instrument, but I think I will likely go with a new instrument. For the record, I do play Irish music, and it is quite an obsession, so I cant see that changing any time soon. When I began playing the fiddle, I came from playing jazz guitar, so I could appreciate the benefit of good tone. I opted not to buy a cheap ($500) fiddle and instead save for a decent instrument (which I got for a steal, and not much more than the cheapos) which I still play, and get many compliments on its tone. I have just finished an undergrad degree and am starting to work as a researcher, which will hopefully lead to grad school. These are big economic decisions, but I know I will be able to afford a good instrument in a few years, and I will have the time to save. Viewing the buy/sell lately, im not worried about depreciation on value of a hybrid as they seem to be selling near what they cost new (minus the cost of "utility"). Perhaps I'll love the tone of the hybrid and stick with that, but I do love the tone of the traditional reeded instruments I've had the opportunity to play with (and their players).

 

Anyways, I'll be calling Mr. Tedrow, Mr. Edgely or Mr. Morse in the next few weeks and ordering a black wooden ended, jeffries system concertina.

 

Looking forward to learning all these tunes in my head on the new box.

 

Brandon

 

 

 

So, Ive been playing the fiddle for quite some years and know a good load of tunes. Im happy with my fiddle playing, but I most enjoy playing with a small group, usually a flutist friend and my girlfriend on C#/D box. Ive been planning to take up the concertina at some point, and I've been playing around with a Stagi 20 button, and have gotten some tunes down on that instrument, despite the limited range. Ive been saving for a mid-range instrument, and have about enough now for something like and Edgley or Tedrow, or possibly a mahogany Lachenal or Jones. I could save a bit more and get a rosewood Lach as well.

 

My plan is to buy one of these instruments and put a down payment on a Sutner or Dipper soon after. Because of this plan, Im more concerned with playability and responsiveness than true concertina tone, as by the time ive played enough to consider myself a serious player, I'll have a top quality instrument.

 

Which would be the best choice for the meantime? I like the sound of the older instruments, but do they play as crisply as an Edgley? I know opinions would be varied, but I need to inform my decision as there aren't many concertinas (or concertinists) around to compare with.

 

If you prefer not to voice your opinions openly, please PM me.

 

Thanks!

 

just so you know, new makers have a waiting list often of 3+ years. so, plan your purchase three years ahead of when you'll have the money.

[wntrmute]

I don't fully buy the idea that a car is entirely a luxury in Europe, despite their (usually) much better public trasportation. It's like a dishwasher or a clothes washer. Sure you can wash things by hand, but how long would that take?

Anyways, the real trick is to get someone else to buy stuff for you.

[Woody]

We're talking about US here, of course. Car in Europe is an unnecessary luxury

If my car is an unnecessary luxury - how am I supposed to get around? And why is it different for the yanks?

 

Hey Woody,

 

It is different for the (us Yanks because you have efficient, fast, modern rail systems.

Hee hee hee - stop it with the jokes!

 

We ain't had a train here since 1962.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Woody

[chiton1]

Get real guys, a car is as much (or as little) of luxury here as in the states. Unless you live in the Netherlands were the public transport is well arranged and may lead you to many places (but not all!). Or unless you live in a big city (but that goes for the US too) you will need a car in rural France (or rural Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Portugal, Rumania, Germany etc). Here the nearest shop is 5 km away, nearest (small) town is 25 km. I would be quite isolated without a car. Perhaps distances are greater in the US but what does it matter if you need a car to drive you 30 or 300 kms?!

[m3838]

m,

 

Great photos! (even if they are not yours)

 

Dan

They are not mine, they are from 1911 and 1920 respectively.

Cable car became a tourist attraction in SF, a pity really. It's very convinient and one still can use transit passes on them, I believe. I used to use them and if you live along the route, it's perfect! But they deliberately killed it, bastards.

[m3838]

Get real guys, a car is as much (or as little) of luxury here as in the states. Unless you live in the Netherlands were the public transport is well arranged and may lead you to many places (but not all!). Or unless you live in a big city (but that goes for the US too) you will need a car in rural France (or rural Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Portugal, Rumania, Germany etc). Here the nearest shop is 5 km away, nearest (small) town is 25 km. I would be quite isolated without a car. Perhaps distances are greater in the US but what does it matter if you need a car to drive you 30 or 300 kms?!

We often mix results with the cause.

When I lived in USSR, nobody except some social bumps had cars. So you don't go to unaccessible places, and you don't settle away from the grid.

I don't remember feeling of isolation, we've traveled to Black Sea Resorts, went to widlerness with backpacks, kayaked to remote areas, and biked through the woods around the City. You just choose where to go.

To settle to where bus or train can't carry you is a whim, and everything that supports that whim is a luxury.

Without knowing the situation in rural Ireland, nor rural US, nor rural Belarus, I only compare small towns in Russia, US, Italy and Austria. And find the situation in the US appalling, anti-human, destroyed and helplessly outdated. It affects social interaction, adds to loneliness, shallowness of relationships, false sence of self-sufficiency, abandonmnent of elderlies, parent dependency of children with resulting mutiny, and simply unnecessarily kills some 42 thousand very carefull drivers a year.

[Paul Read]

Get real guys, a car is as much (or as little) of luxury here as in the states. Unless you live in the Netherlands were the public transport is well arranged and may lead you to many places (but not all!). Or unless you live in a big city (but that goes for the US too) you will need a car in rural France (or rural Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Portugal, Rumania, Germany etc). Here the nearest shop is 5 km away, nearest (small) town is 25 km. I would be quite isolated without a car. Perhaps distances are greater in the US but what does it matter if you need a car to drive you 30 or 300 kms?!

We often mix results with the cause.

When I lived in USSR, nobody except some social bumps had cars. So you don't go to unaccessible places, and you don't settle away from the grid.

I don't remember feeling of isolation, we've traveled to Black Sea Resorts, went to widlerness with backpacks, kayaked to remote areas, and biked through the woods around the City. You just choose where to go.

To settle to where bus or train can't carry you is a whim, and everything that supports that whim is a luxury.

Without knowing the situation in rural Ireland, nor rural US, nor rural Belarus, I only compare small towns in Russia, US, Italy and Austria. And find the situation in the US appalling, anti-human, destroyed and helplessly outdated. It affects social interaction, adds to loneliness, shallowness of relationships, false sence of self-sufficiency, abandonmnent of elderlies, parent dependency of children with resulting mutiny, and simply unnecessarily kills some 42 thousand very carefull drivers a year.

And so, if you get a modern instrument it will have waterproof glue and be much better than a vintage one for sitting on and paddling if you want to travel on a river or lake..............or am I off topic

Edited June 16, 2008 by Paul Read

[David Levine]

Here the nearest shop is 5 km away, nearest (small) town is 25 km.

That's about our situation in Co Clare. But it still isn't too far to bike- though there are hills and of course occasional rain.

Pedaling easy at about ten miles an hour, easy, 25km is manageable. 5 Km is about 15-20 minutes. No big deal.

You still see old guys (and women) biking into town in all kinds of weather.

In a few years you'll see a lot more old guys (and women) on bicycles. Including us.

In a few years gasoline will be well over €10 / gallon ($16) at the pump.