Dipper Concertinas

[Stephen Chambers]

I miss driving my old sports cars. I owned several Triumph TR 6 and MGBs over the last 30 years, but trouble finding original or acceptable OEM parts led me to appreciate newer vehicles. I drive German made autos now, and love the responsive performance, and reliability. I need a car that I can jump in and drive anywhere, at almost any time.

That sounds very much like why I now drive a Subaru!

 

Although I have my eyes on a 1971 TR6 completely restored, I would buy one to drive on the weekends, and short trips and enjoy it for what it is. A beautiful antique and a reasonable investment.

And though an MGB GT was once my "pride and joy", I wouldn't consider one now as a daily means of transport; as another Subaru driver said to me - MGB=Mine Got Broke, and it did frequently, usually at the worst possible times, in the worst possible places.

 

But a concertina isn't a car (and I'm a hypocrite ), so I'm sticking to my 1926 Wheatstone.

[JimLucas]

I miss driving my old sports cars. ... I have my eyes on a 1971 TR6 completely restored,....

"Old"?!! Oh, my greying hairs!

Ah, it's hard to take, having what I remember as the flashy "new" models being now referred to as "vintage".

[Bob Tedrow]

This is the very definition of "thread drift" is it not?

 

I drove my 1928 Model A Ford everyday for about 13 years. This was necessary because at the time, it was the only car I had available for daily transport. My wife drove the *real* car. Day and night, near and far, raining or sunny, I was only towed home three times. Twice the electrical system caught fire and I managed to get home with spare wire I kept handy. I spent many a puzzled moment on the side of the road trying to get the motor started.

 

I have also changed my share of flat tires on the road, patching them and filling them back up with air.

 

This brings me to a difference of definitions between the sexes. I maintain that a "breakdown" is defined as an event that prevents one from reaching their desired destination without a tow. By that definition, I only had three breakdowns in 13 years.

 

My wife maintains a "breakdown" has occured anytime you are delayed at all in reaching a destination due to a mechanical or electrical problem.

 

By her definition breakdowns were a regular event.

 

I do believe the experience depending on the old Ford has given me a forgiving and generally favorable attitude toward mechanical devices and old concertinas in particular.

 

Bob

 

 

I miss driving my old sports cars. I owned several Triumph TR 6 and MGBs over the last 30 years, but trouble finding original or acceptable OEM parts led me to appreciate newer vehicles. I drive German made autos now, and love the responsive performance, and reliability. I need a car that I can jump in and drive anywhere, at almost any time.

That sounds very much like why I now drive a Subaru!

 

Although I have my eyes on a 1971 TR6 completely restored, I would buy one to drive on the weekends, and short trips and enjoy it for what it is. A beautiful antique and a reasonable investment.

And though an MGB GT was once my "pride and joy", I wouldn't consider one now as a daily means of transport; as another Subaru driver said to me - MGB=Mine Got Broke, and it did frequently, usually at the worst possible times, in the worst possible places.

 

But a concertina isn't a car (and I'm a hypocrite ), so I'm sticking to my 1926 Wheatstone.

[Lawrence Reeves]

I bought my first TR6 ( a 1974 ) in 1977, and paid 2000 dollars for it. I would gladly buy another for the same price, or the 26 key bone buttoned Jeffries I was too late on for 1800 dollars in 1999. There are probably a lot of good comparisons with vintage sports cars and concertinas such as Jeffries and Wheatstone. When an original or well maintained model comes available it is a true joy to own. When it has a mechanical failure, you can spend time tinkering with it, or search for original replacemant parts to fix it up. Your pride in ownership, along with the satisfaction of knowing how to put it all back together makes you feel great. On a side note, the deck behind the seats of a TR6 has room for a concertina case a cooler and a tool kit. What more could you need?

 

 

I miss driving my old sports cars. ... I have my eyes on a 1971 TR6 completely restored,....

"Old"?!! Oh, my greying hairs!

Ah, it's hard to take, having what I remember as the flashy "new" models being now referred to as "vintage".

[Jim Besser]

These vintage car analogies don't work for me, and this gets back to the original question: as long as you have good reeds and a structurally sound box, a competent technician can fix almost anything that goes wrong with a high-quality vintage concertina.

 

That isn't true for a vintage car, which can be preserved and maintained only at tremendous expense.

 

Jeffries, Suttners and Dippers are all great concertinas; the "best" is a matter of feel and sound, and purely subjective. I'm not sure a new Dipper will be any more trouble free than a well-maintained antique Jeffries; I am quite certain a new Suburu will be much more reliable than Bob's Model A.

[Chris Ghent]

I ride a 1972 Norton on a daily basis and have done for a long time. In all that time I have always arrived home eventually, though on many occasions the process has been delayed somewhat.

 

In my mind the similarity to concertinas is marked, and I'd like to point to the words of a slightly famous motorcyclist, Ted Simon, who rode a motorcycle similar to mine around the world and wrote a book about his adventure. His advice was "the interruptions are the journey..."

 

Chris

[Woody]

...as long as you have good reeds...

Which raises the question what happens if a reed goes. Is it possible to get a replacement reed of, for example, Jeffries quality? And of course how much of an instrument do you have to replace before it ceases to be a Jeffries?

[fidjit]

Like the road sweepers broom.

" This is the same broom since I started. Only had seven new heads and three new handles"

 

Chas

[McIsog]

How many C. Jeffries, Maker concertinas were made in total?

 

You know they are all just collecting dust in attics waiting to be discovered. And at prices like 4600 UPK they will be discovered.

[ceemonster]

some jeffries are now changing hands on the private market for nine to twelve thousand dollars. to be fair, this ridiculously high price may reflect exchange rates disadvantageous to the purchaser side, but it may not. i have heard of sales in this range where the concertina was sold and purchased in the U.S. with no exchange rate hiking up the cost.

 

in any event, no, in cut-and-dried value-for-dollar terms, i do not believe that even a good century-old concertina in this price range is worth the money, for some of the reasons outlined in the original post. (in the less cut-and-dried arena where value is measured by intangibles, sure, if you're silly-rich and have the money to burn, fair play to you.) i believe that dippers have the best button actions ever made, and the suttners i have heard have sounded great, though i haven't played one. i keep encountering wonderful irish players either on cd, or irish players in person, who reply "suttner" when you ask what they're playing. but this is the spiel i give when someone who has neither asks for opinions. YOU dear original poster, already have a jeffries. and just because i don't think they're worth nine to twelve large, doesn't mean i wouldn't think it might be worth keep one you already have.....guess it depends on how great the reeds sound and how much overhaul the thing needs..... the great jeffries voice, is unique....

 

jesus....EIGHT years for a dipper county clare???????

[John Wild]

Like the road sweepers broom.

" This is the same broom since I started. Only had seven new heads and three new handles"

 

Chas

 

-"How can it be the same broom then?"

 

- "It's in the photograph, what more proof do you need?"

[scott fineran]

One of my primary concerns about owning an older instrument is that it will eventually spend a lot longer in the workshop as it gets even older. Comparing them to cars would only support this sort of view.

 

Chris Chent said to me that he had fixed part of th action on an old Wheatstone and it had taken him a very short period of time, which is fine if you want to move in next to your favorite repairer.

 

I have to admit that I was amazed at the general condition of my instrument when I picked it up a few years back. I have had Malcolm Clapp do some maintenance work on the action etc since I bought it but nothing to drastic. It is in need of a new set of bellows which I can get done at a reasonable price here in Aus but looking into the future how can anyone say they are going to stay in good working order without regular repairs etc. Doesn't matter if it is a Jeffries, Dipper or whatever if it spends a lot of time in the workshop and you can't play it

 

Everyone seems to focus on the reeds as they most important part of the instrument but I have heard few reviews that do not also focus on the action, finish etc. Also from talking to makers and the like they seem to hint that there is a lot more to making a concertina than just the reeds. Following that reasoning you could throw a set of jeffries reeds into a german built concertina and it would sound great. I doubt it.

 

Scott

[Chris Ghent]

Everyone seems to focus on the reeds as they most important part of the instrument but I have heard few reviews that do not also focus on the action, finish etc. Also from talking to makers and the like they seem to hint that there is a lot more to making a concertina than just the reeds. Following that reasoning you could throw a set of jeffries reeds into a german built concertina and it would sound great. I doubt it.

 

Scott

 

All parts of an instrument are important to make it the instrument it is. The reason for the focus on the reed assemblies is they are the part repairers find most difficult to replicate.

 

Chris

[Daniel Hersh]

I don't think that the analogy quite holds because of the difference in the number (and the cost!) of parts for a concertina as opposed to a car. My own primary concertina is an unbranded Crabb or Jeffries from around 1880 that had been very extensively restored by Stephen Chambers just before I bought it in the early 1980's. Despite heavy playing on and off over the years I've owned it, it hasn't needed much time in the shop because most of the things that wear out (bellows, pads, valves, bushings, etc.) had already been replaced before I got it--and the cost of extensive concertina restoration is quite reasonable when compared to the purchase price of a high-end vintage concertina today.

 

Daniel

 

One of my primary concerns about owning an older instrument is that it will eventually spend a lot longer in the workshop as it gets even older. Comparing them to cars would only support this sort of view.

 

Chris Chent said to me that he had fixed part of th action on an old Wheatstone and it had taken him a very short period of time, which is fine if you want to move in next to your favorite repairer.

 

I have to admit that I was amazed at the general condition of my instrument when I picked it up a few years back. I have had Malcolm Clapp do some maintenance work on the action etc since I bought it but nothing to drastic. It is in need of a new set of bellows which I can get done at a reasonable price here in Aus but looking into the future how can anyone say they are going to stay in good working order without regular repairs etc. Doesn't matter if it is a Jeffries, Dipper or whatever if it spends a lot of time in the workshop and you can't play it

 

Everyone seems to focus on the reeds as they most important part of the instrument but I have heard few reviews that do not also focus on the action, finish etc. Also from talking to makers and the like they seem to hint that there is a lot more to making a concertina than just the reeds. Following that reasoning you could throw a set of jeffries reeds into a german built concertina and it would sound great. I doubt it.

 

Scott

[Stephen Chambers]

I don't think that the analogy quite holds because of the difference in the number (and the cost!) of parts for a concertina as opposed to a car. My own primary concertina is an unbranded Crabb or Jeffries from around 1880 that had been very extensively restored by Stephen Chambers just before I bought it in the early 1980's. Despite heavy playing on and off over the years I've owned it, it hasn't needed much time in the shop because most of the things that wear out (bellows, pads, valves, bushings, etc.) had already been replaced before I got it--and the cost of extensive concertina restoration is quite reasonable when compared to the purchase price of a high-end vintage concertina today.

Daniel,

 

I'm glad it's still holding up! Yes, a "full service" of a concertina lasts a lot longer than one of a car...

 

(And how many cars have I got through in the meantime? )

[ceemonster]

[Everyone seems to focus on the reeds as they most important part of the instrument but I have heard few reviews that do not also focus on the action, finish etc.]

 

actually, i thought about this after my first post above with a rhapsodic comment about the jeffries sound. when people say to consider the "reeds" i usually take that to mean the sound, but "reeds" also have responsiveness qualities that pertain to quickness.....

 

and i have to say, fast button action and easy, fast response would be as big a factor in my choice as sound or voice. perhaps a hair bigger of a factor, even. i play irish dance music, and acquiring an exceptionally responsive, fast-action concertina has given me an extra leg up in hoping to achieve just a nice, unhurried session speed.

[malcolm clapp]

Scott,

 

At the point where you consider your Jeffries to be worn out, please give me first refusal.

 

And I'd like that offer extended to our great-grandchildren's lifetime too....

 

Thanks, mate!

 

MC

 

Edited to add that the above comment in no way implies criticism of Dipper or other "new" concertinas. If Colin rang me tomorrow and offered me a G/D Cotswold, ready now, I would accept in a heartbeat. However, only time would tell whether it would replace my Jeffries Brothers G/D as my main squeeze. But I don't think that considerations of longlevity would be a deciding factor.

Edited June 14, 2007 by malcolm clapp