What About Vintage

[Henk van Aalten]

Friends

 

As English is not my native language I need your help/comment on the word VINTAGE. In relation to concertina's this word is used more and more, especially on e-Bay. The most miserable concertina's are presented there as "vintage" concertina's!

As far as I know the word vintage indicates a special class of .....

 

Has the word been devaluated or has my dictionary become a real vintage dictionary ??

 

Thaks for your help

 

Henk

[rabennett]

As far as I know the word vintage indicates a special class of .....

 

Has the word been devaluated or has my dictionary become a real vintage dictionary ??

 

Thaks for your help

 

Henk

Henk, your understanding of "vintage" is correct. The word is probably in the process of being devalued, in marketplaces like e-bay, by "hype". "Hype", if you're not familiar with the word, is what you call lies - when you're trying to sell something!

 

Regards,

Dick

[Tom Hall]

Among those of us who are involved in the antiques business, vintage has a fairly consistant meaning, ie. having some age and from a period in which such pieces were very well made.

 

Part of the problem comes from the all to often misapplication of the word "antique." To manyin the profession, an antique must have been made by hand, prior to the Industrial Revolution. To others, it must be of a certain age; 100 years is the most common usage.

 

Thus, many valuable, sought after pieces that were manufactured, or are less than 100 years old, fall into a limbonic area. They are too fine and desireable to be called collectibles, yet do not fit any accepted definition of antique, and are therefore referred to as vintage; record players and automobiles spring to mind.

 

As far as eBay goes, ignore terms such as antique, vintage, rare, and cut to the description. Most of the sellers on eBay are amateurs and wouldn't recognize an antique if it were embedded in their fundament; same goes for vintage and rare and unique -- Tom

[Tom Hall]

Having taken a few minutes to reflect on my previous post, over a wee dram, I felt that perhaps I should expand on my definitions with regard to concertinas. I am limiting my comments to those instruments made in Britain as i am woefully ignorant of German and Italian examples.

 

Certainly, no concertina made after WWII should be called vintage; this term belongs to the pre-war instruments. The question for which I have no absolute answer is the line between vintage and antique. I should pause to ak those with more knowledge to step in and correct any errors for our mutual edification.

 

Except for Sir Charles' first prototypes, I am sure that some parts of all concertinas were mass produced; buttons, springs, pads, valves, reed frames, reed stock. Other parts were made by hand, one at a time; frames, bellows, reeds. In all instaces, the final product had to be assembled and tested by hand, one at a time.

 

Now that I've confused all of my definitions of antique and vintage, here's my personal take:

 

Antique concertina -- pre 1880

 

Vintage concertina -- 1880 -- 1940

 

Hope this is of some help -- Tom

[Henk van Aalten]

Dick & Tom

 

Thanks very much for your answers. Now I know that (by Tom's definition) I myself are close to vintage (If I was a concertina!)

Henk

[Chris Timson]

Hmmm, interesting. I've just realised that my own mental image of the words antique and vintage don't include any concept of usage. Thus, although we have several concertinas over 100 years old and one over 150, I never think of them as being antique or vintage because they all get played.

 

The thing about concertinas that makes the usage of these words to describe them rather pointless is that the quality and hence the value of a concertina is judged on criteria such as playability and condition - fitness to purpose if you want, and age just doesn't enter into the calculation. The only imponderable that can influence the price apart from fitness criteria is maker's name. Thus the Aeola is over-valued as compared to the Edeophone because of the Wheatstone name even though the Edeophone is in the main a better-made instrument.

 

Chris

[dbowers]

My usual assumption when I see the term "vintage" on E-Bay is that the bellows barely holds air and at least 10% of the buttons don't work. If it actually has as many reeds as one would expect from the number of buttons, I consider that a plus

Edited September 9, 2003 by dbowers

[glo]

Hello,

 

I am refurbishing a concertina for a friend. The hinges have a train engine on them with the words "Professional Accordeon" and under that the words "Trade Mark" with the train underneath. I would like to know the origin of this Concertina.

It is a box shape. Thank You Very Much, Gloria Roberson

[RELCOLLECT]

To further complicate this issue, I am an antiques dealer in the midwest, we use the term "vintage" to refer to almost any item with a "collectible" value that is more than 20 years old. As far as ebay is concerned, we (my family business and a few dealers we know well are all I can vouch for) use "vintage" in the description to differentiate the item from "new" or "contemporary" pieces in the same search catagory. I am not, however referring to concertinas specifically, but to antiques (100+ years) and collectibles in general, including motor vehicles. (I also repair "vintage" motorcycles, and rewire "vintage" electrical fixtures asa sideline!!)

 

Greg

[Richard Morse]

I am refurbishing a concertina for a friend.  The hinges have a train engine on them with the words "Professional Accordeon"  and under that the words "Trade Mark" with the train underneath.  I would like to know the origin of this Concertina. It is a box shape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds more like a button accordion than a concertina. The "hinges" you describe - are they embossed thin metal corners on the edges of the bellows frame (in fact not "hinges" or being able to move at all)? Sometimes these are on the corners of the inter-bellows frames as well. I've seen scores of similar button accordions but not come across that particular one.

 

You may get a lot more responses by re-entering your query as a new topic (where people could easily see your post) rather than being a part of a different topic as you have posted here. More description and a photo would help a lot too. There were many makers of BA's at the turn on the century making that type of accordion from the German and north Italian areas for export to the UK and US.

[glo]

Hello,

 

I am refurbishing a concertina for a friend.  The hinges have a train engine on them with the words "Professional Accordeon"  and under that the words "Trade Mark" with the train underneath.  I would like to know the origin of this Concertina.

It is a box shape.  Thank You Very Much, Gloria Roberson

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[glo]

I am refurbishing a concertina for a friend.  The hinges have a train engine on them with the words "Professional Accordeon"  and under that the words "Trade Mark" with the train underneath.  I would like to know the origin of this Concertina. It is a box shape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds more like a button accordion than a concertina. The "hinges" you describe - are they embossed thin metal corners on the edges of the bellows frame (in fact not "hinges" or being able to move at all)? Sometimes these are on the corners of the inter-bellows frames as well. I've seen scores of similar button accordions but not come across that particular one.

 

You may get a lot more responses by re-entering your query as a new topic (where people could easily see your post) rather than being a part of a different topic as you have posted here. More description and a photo would help a lot too. There were many makers of BA's at the turn on the century making that type of accordion from the German and north Italian areas for export to the UK and US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[glo]

I am refurbishing a concertina for a friend.  The hinges have a train engine on them with the words "Professional Accordeon"  and under that the words "Trade Mark" with the train underneath.  I would like to know the origin of this Concertina. It is a box shape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds more like a button accordion than a concertina. The "hinges" you describe - are they embossed thin metal corners on the edges of the bellows frame (in fact not "hinges" or being able to move at all)? Sometimes these are on the corners of the inter-bellows frames as well. I've seen scores of similar button accordions but not come across that particular one.

 

You may get a lot more responses by re-entering your query as a new topic (where people could easily see your post) rather than being a part of a different topic as you have posted here. More description and a photo would help a lot too. There were many makers of BA's at the turn on the century making that type of accordion from the German and north Italian areas for export to the UK and US.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thank You For Responding to my inquiry. As soon as I figure out how to use this site (postings) I will resubmit my question under a new topic with pictures. Thank You. Gloria

[Stephen Chambers]

In old car terms "Vintage" is reserved for cars manufactured from the beginning of 1919 up to the end of 1930. Anything older than that is a "Veteran", and anything more recent, but at least fifteen years old, is a "Classic".