Bids Refused, Seller Stuffed.

[Chris Timson]

Am I missing something obvious here ?

No, I don't think so.

 

Chris

[Paul Read]

This decent-looking Lachenal MacCann just sold for £470 - surely less than half its true value. I had placed a bid with a sniper service, and on looking it up at the end of the auction, I found the sad words, "Auction restricted: requirements not met". The seller tells me that the only requirements he set for the sale were UK residence and Paypal membership - I qualify on both counts. He also tells me that another potential buyer contacted him with the same tale, and I'd be prepared to have a small wager that I wasn't the only member of cnet ready to have a punt on the instrument. Was anyone else sniping, and did anyone else have the same experience? I don't suspect any kind of skulduggery, but clearly some automated system is kicking in and blocking legitimate bids. I feel a bit sorry for myself, but much sorrier for the seller, who has potentially lost around £500. Can anyone shed any light?

Dave, what happened on this one? Did it go or will it be re-listed? What are ebay going to do?

[david robertson]

Dave, what happened on this one? Did it go or will it be re-listed? What are ebay going to do?

 

Well, I've been in touch with the seller, he has been in touch with the high bidder, and they are trying to agree a fair price between themselves, As far as I can see, they are both behaving decently and honestly, so good luck to them both.

I've also been in touch with eBay, who suggest that the probable reason for the bid rejection was that my Paypal membership wasn't linked to my eBay ID. Lest anyone else should fall into the same trap, here's how to do it.

1. Log into your PayPal account and click the Profile subtab.

2. Select "Selling Preferences" > "Auctions".

3. Click "Add" and enter your eBay User ID.

So now we know!

[s2maur]

This decent-looking Lachenal MacCann just sold for £470 - surely less than half its true value. I had placed a bid with a sniper service, and on looking it up at the end of the auction, I found the sad words, "Auction restricted: requirements not met". The seller tells me that the only requirements he set for the sale were UK residence and Paypal membership - I qualify on both counts. He also tells me that another potential buyer contacted him with the same tale, and I'd be prepared to have a small wager that I wasn't the only member of cnet ready to have a punt on the instrument. Was anyone else sniping, and did anyone else have the same experience? I don't suspect any kind of skulduggery, but clearly some automated system is kicking in and blocking legitimate bids. I feel a bit sorry for myself, but much sorrier for the seller, who has potentially lost around £500. Can anyone shed any light?

 

I had the same thing happen twice when bidding on a nice 26b Lachenal Anglo. I'm from the U.S and seller from U.K. without restrictions on either auction. I could have had a nice 'tina for little price if that hadn't happened.

[Azalin]

I agree with Dirge on this. Sniping (whether it is done automatically, or by sitting at your PC and putting a bid in with 10 seconds to go) is the only way to beat the illogical bidder - the person who bids and bids until they win it.

 

By the way I certainly don't agree with this. There are people who shop on eBay because they want a bargain. You might be willing to pay x for an item but you're looking for a bargain and will wait until you pay only y, thus having the feeling you saved money.

 

That's the reason why many, many eBayers, like me, will wait until the last second to put the maximum bid. It's not because I'm illogical, it's because I want to maximize the chances I'll get a bargain, meaning I'll pay less than what I'm willing to pay.

 

So I can understand why someone would bid many, many times. I think it's a total waste of time, as I'm not willing to waste a few hours of concentration for a few dollars' savings, but I'm sure you can get good bargains this way, like the person who won this concertina.

 

I can tell you right away, if I was the winner of this concertina I would not try to sort out any deal. The other buyers should have used the old fashionned bidding system, if you want to use sniping, deal with the risks. If you put an item on eBay and you're not ready to deal with a low price for your item, an 'unfair' price, then don't use eBay, use old fashion classifieds. It's a bit like this Northern Rock thingy in England. While I was in the UK I could hear people on the radio complaining that they lost money with Northern Rock, it was their retirement plan blabla, and that the government should back them and protect them against losses. I was glad to hear some experts say it was 'nonsens' as these people knew or should have known the risks of investing in the stock market, and take responsability for it.

[Azalin]

The other thing is that there's something called 'reserve' on eBay so the seller should have put one if he didnt want to have too low of a price, so I really don't understand what the fuss is about :-)

[david robertson]

The other thing is that there's something called 'reserve' on eBay so the seller should have put one if he didnt want to have too low of a price, so I really don't understand what the fuss is about :-)

You're quite right, of course, but if you put yourself in the position of someone who has come across this bizarre instrument in his late grandad's attic, has an experimental squeeze and finds that half the buttons don't work and half the air is hissing out through the bellows, it would be quite easy to think you'd be lucky to get anything at all for it. My point is that the market usually sets a fair price, but in cases like this one, is prevented from doing so.

[Chris Drinkwater]

Well, the seller obtained some advice from a concertina specialist before putting it on Ebay and this is what he wrote in his listing:

 

"This is a Mccann Duet system concertina, the third most common type after the English and Anglo.

 

The photos show that it is in good condition externally, and probably has not been played a great deal. The handstraps, though worn, may well be the originals. The bellows show little sign of wear, and the metalwork is bright. The ends are flat rather than raised.

The Mccann Duet system was invented in the late 1800s, and Lachenals went out of production in the early 1930s so that sets some limits on its possible age. From the design and condition I would hazard a guess that it is from the early 20th century."

 

As I have no knowledge regarding this instrument, I am selling it “sold as seen” and within the price range that I have been advised that it is worth in its unrestored state.

 

Note the last sentance. Presumably the person he sought advice from, reckoned £400 plus was a fair price given its condition. In that case, I would hold the person he sought the advice from, responsible for giving it such a low value.

 

Chris

Edited April 26, 2008 by Chris Drinkwater

[JimLucas]

The other thing is that there's something called 'reserve' on eBay so the seller should have put one if he didnt want to have too low of a price, so I really don't understand what the fuss is about :-)

My understanding of "the fuss" is not just that the seller got "cheated" out of a better price, but a belief that the true high bidder -- according to the published eBay rules -- was cheated of his purchase.

[JimLucas]

The other buyers should have used the old fashionned bidding system, if you want to use sniping, deal with the risks.

You are implying that the problem which is the topic of this thread was caused by risks inherent in sniping, but not in "old-fashioned" bidding. According to the evidence presented here, that is not the case.

[Azalin]

The other buyers should have used the old fashionned bidding system, if you want to use sniping, deal with the risks.

You are implying that the problem which is the topic of this thread was caused by risks inherent in sniping, but not in "old-fashioned" bidding. According to the evidence presented here, that is not the case.

 

Well, I guess we did interpret it differently. I read, or understood, that to link a Paypal account to your eBay account there's some settings you need to change. The person *did* change it afterward, and next time the bidding will go on. The reason why the person didnt see that the required setting wasnt set the first time is because the person used "sniping", which doesnt allow user interaction before you actually bid. So yeah that's why I stand behind my "If you are going to snipe, deal with the risks involved".... and one of the risks is not being able to react to anything that requires human intervention to make your bid go through.

[Dirge]

Don't completely agree with that. I like to bid last thing to avoid the 'Oh well I might bid another tenner then' merchant getting ahead of me. I'm not using a mechanical device; I'm not doing anything untoward or that isn't available to anyone, but I wouldn't have time to react either; I don't think you can bracket me and others like me with snipers, although I am in effect after the same end.

 

On the other hand I accept as part of this that if the connection fails at the critical moment, say, I may miss out; maybe that's a part of it too.

 

It seems to be that the rules were followed, but extra small print got in the way. Well that's Ebay isn't it; such a vast monopoly it doesn't need to be any good to rake in the shekels. You take them on their terms or avoid them, and they hardly need to care any more.

 

I tried to get an address for their head office once and never found it.

[John Pearse]

I expect ebay designed their user interface to be used by humans, and you could

reasonably expect it to work when so used. But I expect there are caveats in the

small print which absolve ebay of responsibility if it fails.

 

Is there a programmers interface to allow sneaky software to make automated bids?

If not then I would not expect ebay to guarantee the bid system will work. In which

case the responsibility might be said to lie with the sneaky software suppliers.

 

I've also been in touch with eBay, who suggest that the probable reason for the bid rejection was that my Paypal membership wasn't linked to my eBay ID.

And there is also the possibility that all the bids failed for forseeable reasons.

 

Someone using snipe software would appear to be trying to gain an advantage over other bidders.

What happens when almost everyone uses snipe? Would ebay still function?

 

Dirge is right about the highest bidder still winning. And I like the idea of

extending the deadline until no more bids have been received for a short time. But

it needs thinking through - for example, what's to be done about the very small

number of people who need to be protected from themselves? (those who will keep bidding until

they win).

[Paul Read]

The other thing is that there's something called 'reserve' on eBay so the seller should have put one if he didnt want to have too low of a price, so I really don't understand what the fuss is about :-)

Actually, that could have been a problem too. Putting a reserve costs a fee. If bids above the reserve were refused he may have had no sale and had to pay the reserve fee too.

[s2maur]

Dirge is right about the highest bidder still winning. And I like the idea of

extending the deadline until no more bids have been received for a short time. But

it needs thinking through - for example, what's to be done about the very small

number of people who need to be protected from themselves? (those who will keep bidding until

they win).

 

 

To that I say "caveat emptor"

[Dirge]

Me too; I'm heartily fed up with having my freedom to take my own decisions as an adult curtailed because a moron somewhere needs to be protected from himself; doubly so when said moron still does whatever we are both supposed not to do anyway...

[SteveP]

I agree with Dirge on this. Sniping (whether it is done automatically, or by sitting at your PC and putting a bid in with 10 seconds to go) is the only way to beat the illogical bidder - the person who bids and bids until they win it.

 

By the way I certainly don't agree with this. There are people who shop on eBay because they want a bargain. You might be willing to pay x for an item but you're looking for a bargain and will wait until you pay only y, thus having the feeling you saved money.

 

That's the reason why many, many eBayers, like me, will wait until the last second to put the maximum bid. It's not because I'm illogical, it's because I want to maximize the chances I'll get a bargain, meaning I'll pay less than what I'm willing to pay.

 

So I can understand why someone would bid many, many times. I think it's a total waste of time, as I'm not willing to waste a few hours of concentration for a few dollars' savings, but I'm sure you can get good bargains this way, like the person who won this concertina.

 

I can tell you right away, if I was the winner of this concertina I would not try to sort out any deal. The other buyers should have used the old fashionned bidding system, if you want to use sniping, deal with the risks.

Some confusion over terminology I think - as I said, "Sniping (whether it is done automatically, or by sitting at your PC and putting a bid in with 10 seconds to go)".

 

It sounds as if you do the same as me, putting in your maximum bid at the last minute. That, to me, is sniping, as is using the automated services. The strategy is the same, whether you are sitting there yourself, or tucked up in bed while a machine does it for you. But yes, the machine version is riskier.

[Azalin]

456489

Some confusion over terminology I think - as I said, "Sniping (whether it is done automatically, or by sitting at your PC and putting a bid in with 10 seconds to go)".

It sounds as if you do the same as me, putting in your maximum bid at the last minute. That, to me, is sniping, as is using the automated services. The strategy is the same, whether you are sitting there yourself, or tucked up in bed while a machine does it for you. But yes, the machine version is riskier.

 

OK I guess for us sniping doesnt have the same meaning. You can be certain that the day I see a Colin Dipper concertina on eBay, and want to bet on it, first thing will do is log in and press on the "Place a bid" button just to make sure I qualify for bidding... if I get no error message and get the box to bid, I will then cancel and wait until the last minute to put my maximum bidding. So yeah that's different than "automated sniping" for me anyway as I'll get some user interaction going.

 

Now, to people who are likely to use an automated system to snipe on an item they really want... please don't come back screaming "unfairness" if you can't get your item because the sniping server was *down* at the time it was supposed to snipe. It's a risk you are taking, deal with it.

 

You will hear me cry and scream, but not complain of unfairness, if my internet provider goes down or my computer blows up at the last minute I wanted to place a bet. I will deal with the risks involved. If I want to make 100% *sure* my bet goes through, I will place my maximum bid early. This way, if my computer blows up, I have enough time to find a new one... But if I miss a Dipper because my internet provider went down... you can be certain I will be calling them and scream for ages :-)