m3838 Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I keep on bringing this, and technology keeps on improving, making it more and more possible for more people: How about online, or rather on-site school? Somebody is learning a tune, and once a month (a week, every day, once a year) posts a video, or sound file of his/her playing on special thread, named, say, "On-site school". Whoever wants is welcomed to jump in and offer critique, suggestions, ornamentation, harmony, change of the key - whatever. What would also be good, is if pieces that beginners learn, would be posted by advanced players, at will, just to demonstrate. To play Devil's advocate, I might say, that a teacher may feel threatened by this free school, esp. if it picks up. But is it really a consideration, given that teachers are few and far between? Besides, whoever doesn't want - feel free to laugh at beginners' attempts, or marvel at their remarcable progress - in anonymity. Whoever has Mac OS X - it's piece of cake, using built-in camera and recording in Web format, using iMovie. For Windows I'd suggest either free Movie Maker or better one, Ulead Studio ($80 off the Net). Or if you don't want to fiddle with the video, just upload audio from your mp3 recorder, that can be had at $30-50. To make recordings available, you don't have to go to Youtube, just sign up to Mediamax Web storage or similar ones (I'd recommend Mediamax, they give the biggest free storage so far). Then you can post links on this forum very easily. It sure takes some effort, but so finding a teacher, and teacher tends to be more expencive and time consuming (if you have one, but you probably don't). Even advanced players, when getting ready for performance, can get big help from fresh ear. And by the way, for school teachers out there, where can I find ebonite stick, used to demonstrate static electricity in high school? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelypost Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 I really like the sound of this, as one likely to gain a lot from the top tips from others. Is there any reason why you/we can't just get on with it? We could even try to devise a top 20 list of tunes to work through, comprising 'standards' that experienced players are likely to all know (maybe some key tunes from the different styles of playing). I imagine that deciding on the top 20 could be interesting (!) but might be fun! I suppose we would need to decide on style categories, then a top 20 in each catergory, followed by a poll to rank them from which we can pick the top tunes for each style. Once we have some competence of the top 20, we can then work on the next 20! I'm getting carried away here...! I keep on bringing this, and technology keeps on improving, making it more and more possible for more people:How about online, or rather on-site school? Somebody is learning a tune, and once a month (a week, every day, once a year) posts a video, or sound file of his/her playing on special thread, named, say, "On-site school". Whoever wants is welcomed to jump in and offer critique, suggestions, ornamentation, harmony, change of the key - whatever. What would also be good, is if pieces that beginners learn, would be posted by advanced players, at will, just to demonstrate. To play Devil's advocate, I might say, that a teacher may feel threatened by this free school, esp. if it picks up. But is it really a consideration, given that teachers are few and far between? Besides, whoever doesn't want - feel free to laugh at beginners' attempts, or marvel at their remarcable progress - in anonymity. Whoever has Mac OS X - it's piece of cake, using built-in camera and recording in Web format, using iMovie. For Windows I'd suggest either free Movie Maker or better one, Ulead Studio ($80 off the Net). Or if you don't want to fiddle with the video, just upload audio from your mp3 recorder, that can be had at $30-50. To make recordings available, you don't have to go to Youtube, just sign up to Mediamax Web storage or similar ones (I'd recommend Mediamax, they give the biggest free storage so far). Then you can post links on this forum very easily. It sure takes some effort, but so finding a teacher, and teacher tends to be more expencive and time consuming (if you have one, but you probably don't). Even advanced players, when getting ready for performance, can get big help from fresh ear. And by the way, for school teachers out there, where can I find ebonite stick, used to demonstrate static electricity in high school? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Hi I thought Pauline de Snoo already does something like this (albeit more classically based) tho' I suspect her methods are likely to be more structured and less like an 'online' workshop. I suspect that if you leave things open to comment by everyone then it may devolve into 'debate' that may diminish the intentions. I like the idea but fear that it will get bogged down under lots of different opinions. chris (hoping it works for those who want it but......) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauline de snoo Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 Yes I put regularly new exercises on my website plus the videoclips that offer something for beginners to the english concertina. And then there are the lessons by Martyn Allen on youtube (interview with him in next ICA Newsletter (march 2008) Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peelypost Posted December 13, 2007 Share Posted December 13, 2007 These resources are marvellous indeed, and thanks so much for putting in the effort for setting up and maintaining them. Indeed, Martyn's tutorials were part of the process of my deciding to take up the instrument, as I got a good idea of what I was letting myself in for. Yes I put regularly new exercises on my website plus the videoclips that offer something for beginners to the english concertina.And then there are the lessons by Martyn Allen on youtube (interview with him in next ICA Newsletter (march 2008) Pauline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 I really like the sound of this, Cool! Is there any reason why you/we can't just get on with it? It's been brought a few times, but there are some problems: 1. with audio/video equipment needed and time it takes to convert, upload... 2. with over-organization. Who is going to be the teacher, who the student, what styles etc. I hope that today most of wanna-be players are quasy-comfortable with audio/video recording and that the "school" should be like a session, you come, you join, you ask for advices and hope someone will give it to you. It can be kept private or C.net wide, but not world wide. We could even try to devise a top 20 list of tunes to work through, comprising 'standards' that experienced players are likely to all know (maybe some key tunes from the different styles of playing). That would be the problem causing the idea not to pick up. Just record your tune, post it, and hope to get advices. You can ask about top 20, but it should by no means be a requisite of any kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 HiI thought Pauline de Snoo already does something like this (albeit more classically based) tho' I suspect her methods are likely to be more structured and less like an 'online' workshop. I suspect that if you leave things open to comment by everyone then it may devolve into 'debate' that may diminish the intentions. I like the idea but fear that it will get bogged down under lots of different opinions. chris (hoping it works for those who want it but......) Yes, I agree, this may be the biggest problem. But even if it works for some, it's worth it. What draws me to it, is to see how others are doing, who specifically learn English in classical, multy-chordal style. I also have very cute 20 button Lachenal, and wouldn't mind learning a few simple folk tunes on it. I would just move this to special thread, like "On-Site_School", which I hope, will help people ot control their vigor to prove their point. What aslo may be good (just may be), is automatic archiving. So you can clearly see your own progress. I think the key is to keep it low key, no obligation, drop-in/drop-out. The only requirement I would have liked is to restrict people from polite praises. They can be channelled via PM. Or vice versa, I don't know, if some can't take criticism. On the other hand, if some people have tough time with exposing themselves, they can solicit some critics, whose opinion they deem worthy and work on one-on-one basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted December 13, 2007 Author Share Posted December 13, 2007 These resources are marvellous indeed, and thanks so much for putting in the effort for setting up and maintaining them. Indeed, Martyn's tutorials were part of the process of my deciding to take up the instrument, as I got a good idea of what I was letting myself in for. Yes I put regularly new exercises on my website plus the videoclips that offer something for beginners to the english concertina.And then there are the lessons by Martyn Allen on youtube (interview with him in next ICA Newsletter (march 2008) Pauline I'm working on two of those pieces, so thank you. I don't think that cluttering the Youtube with beginners' excercises is of any appeal to the most. Besides it's difficult to exchange opinions on somebody else's website, and we are all here already. At the moment I have two pieces ready to be posted, as I struggle with accents and dynamics, and would really appreciate opinions on that. But a sign-up school, that you pay for, puts forward some obligations, semesters, exams, time-tables. I just can't sign up for anything regular, and also would like to see other systems and styles present. Other words, Academy is good, but Market Place is more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 OK, here's my piece. It's Menuet by Bach, played in single melody, simply because that's the score I have. I'm thinking of adding some harmony to it, be it Bach or not. Somehow my Anglo process was easier and the harmony and style were more intuitive, but here it is on the English. Ctitique away! I would appreciate advices on the rhythm, articulation, dynamics, possible harmony ideas. In some 10 days I'm planning to post the same piece, hopefully improved. here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) Well, well well...every nice indeed. Tempo is very good (some might take a slightly quicker clip but I feel you are right there). Are we to be treated to the B-part soon? The change to major is really something and I look forward to your presentation. I'm sure you already know this, but is it from the Suites for un-accompanied cello. I'll listen to my favorite cd on the way to work, but I think you are just missing a few double-stops. Bach did not intend it to be "harmonized. With the addition of the few missing stops an illusion of polyphony will be achieved I venture...which was Bachs intent. You have ventured into one of the most sublime works written in human history...Bravo! P.S. I would suggest you see dancers as you play it. The first beat to each phrase is a spring board. Additionally, I would rethink some of the articulation on the ending phrase. Really a fine job Michael. By the by, my Dominique was pleasantly suprised when I just played it for her. You crazy Russian you. Edited January 9, 2008 by Mark Evans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) How very brave of you. This is going to be difficult because I don’t really feel qualified to criticise your work. In fact I can’t since the score I have is nothing like the piece you are playing. This is not a bad rendition of the sheet music I have, considering the age of the child. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-WUHwdpspUI This may be easier to listen to. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MH5DcQ_gx1E I would be interested to see your copy of the score, for the piece you played. Well done. Thanks Edited to add: My ignorance is showing, I just found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-VueTEGPE Edited January 9, 2008 by tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatFace Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 (edited) The piece is the second Minuet from the Bach cello suite in G. You play it pretty nicely. I need to rush off, but my suggestions are: 1. Work on getting the rhythm totally even and under control - only then can you modify it musically 2. The two minuets in this suite really need to be played together (in my opinion) - this first is quite boisterous, then this one is rather melancholic, and then to finish you'd play the first minuet again (no repeats). 3. It would be nice to have variation in the way that you play the notes - akin to the bowing on a cello (but not done with in/out on the bellows) so you can bring out the phrasing. For example, in the second half it starts with a rising sequence of 6 notes. I would be inclined to split this into 3+1+2 - i.e. 3 notes played smoothly, then 1 note played short, then 2 notes played smoothly. Throughout the piece (IIRC) you can use this, or a related pattern, or in some places intentionally use a different pattern. To some degree it doesn't matter what phrasing you choose as a basis... but be consistent about how you use it. Maybe find an edition with the bowing marks in and use that as a guide. One thing is to not (necessarily) play "short" notes as staccato - but use the bellows to accentuate the start of the note and decrease the pressure over the duration of the note without actually stopping playing it. This way the note can sound _different_ from the other (legato) notes - but not necessarily any louder or quieter. 4. I wouldn't add any harmony - the music doesn't need it - the harmony is implicit. Incidentally, there is a theory that the cello suites were written by Bach's wife... Nice to hear you playing - I hope to hear more! - Danny Edit: I suggest listening here Edited January 9, 2008 by RatFace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Incidentally, there is a theory that the cello suites were written by Bach's wife... Don't go spreading that rumor...I mean theory around carlessly Misha. Baroque enthusiasts make us concertina nuts look like pikers. One could loose considerable skin off ones backside. Thank goodness all I got was a dismissive snort and narrowing of the eyes from me darlin' when I realated Dannys theory. I buggered out the door to work in a hurry afore she had time to think long on it . Danny's suggestion that you listen to ole Mistsilav is inspired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Thanks for suggestions, Mark and Danny. I have ordered Rostropovich' CD and would like to know, where can I find the missing part B. The score I have, is what I played. Perhabs I need different score, mine is arranged for concertina, and I suspect not that well. I would also be very happy to find that other Menuet, to be played after the first one. Suggestions are over-appreciated. Yes Tony, it's different Menuet. I have the whole book of Bach's Menuets, arranged for two fluites. I thought I could combine the two parts on one concertina, but no such luck. Clever dude he was, that Johann Sebastian Mark, I had no idea this piece is something special. I decided to learn it after playing it a few times and realizing that it's not that difficult and it sounds well. Have I known... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gibet_b Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Whoever has Mac OS X - it's piece of cake, using built-in camera and recording in Web format, using iMovie. I guess I'm not the only one mac user on this forum ;-) Mac Users can use GarageBand for mix their tunes too, with video, as same as a podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted January 11, 2008 Author Share Posted January 11, 2008 I have made new thread. This one, for discussions about the tread is spelled: On-site School. The new, preferably only for posting learning materials and critique is spelled: On-site-school. Sorry if the difference is not more contrasty. All ideas about how to best learn/teach may be placed here. But the actual teaching is better done in specific thread, not overburdened with un-specific discussions. I wanted to name the new one with all capital letters, but it didn't work. Is it possible to change the font in the topic prompt? What would be the best recognizeabe student-teacher thread? P.S. May be it's is just self-service to myself, but I think many may join and post their attempts at some pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 Hello there. Walking the walk, here's another "tune" up for critique. While I'm working on a piece from Bach's Cello suites, I have recorded and uploaded (experimentally) an only audio "video" clip. It was recorded using built-in microphone in my iBook, using Garage Band. The quality of sound seemed to be better, when played back through Garage Band and it deteriorated after it was compressed and saved. Any hints and help here would be appreciated. It's here. Critique away, especially I would appreciate suggestions on dynamics and phrasing. And I probably misspelled the name, but just can't remember it. It's Bach's Buree (sp?) arranged by Danny Chapman. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted May 19, 2008 Author Share Posted May 19, 2008 (edited) Deleted duplicate of the previous post. Edited May 19, 2008 by m3838 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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