Witney Considered Unfriendly

[Chris Timson]

i was actually quite disappointed when i was in witney in 2004. there were so many concertina players at all levels of ability. many of them knew each other. i was there for the first time, and there was hardly anyone seeming to be interested in what this guy coming all the way from berlin, obviously not a beginner, brought with him. uff! this sounds like some ego stuff... don't get me wrong. of course there was lots of things going on, workshops, concerts... and still!

I've moved this here because I didn't want to follow up in a thread that has given me so little pleasure.

 

I don't think it's you in particular, I don't go to Witney myself any more. I find Witney has this "you're not here to enjoy yourself, hurry up, the next lesson's starting" vibe that I really don't like at all. There isn't time or a location where you can be friendly or play together (apart, of course from the Friday night session, but since that isn't official then if you aren't in the right place at the right time you won't know which pub it's going to be in this year and you'll miss it). Meals aren't had together, so even at lunchtime everyone spreads out all over Witney looking for somewhere to eat. Sure the tuition is good, but the weekend is too much of an endurance test for me.

 

You should try Kilve or Swaledale for friendly, sociable weekends with high quality tuition as well. For really sociable events try the Arran Concertina Event or the Scandinavian Squeeze In. Since you in Germany and the latter is in southern Sweden that should really be up your street (I can't speak for Bielefeld since I haven't been to it yet).

 

Don't judge concertina events or the English by Witney, I guess is all I'm saying.

 

Chris

[Peter Brook]

Hi Chris,

 

I think you have made some very valid points there. Certainly ring true with my Witney experiences. there never seems to be any time to just sit and play with a few like minded people. Plus you have got such a variety of instruments that it is not that easy to have something in common with many people.

 

Incidently, I went to the melodeon weekend in November - everyone plays D/G so you immediately all have that in common - I found it a much more "friendly" weekend.

 

Peter

[Paul Read]

I'm sorry to say that my Witney experience was very similar. For me it was made esier by being able to stay with friends just outside of town. At the school, however, I found it quite an intimisating atmosphere.

[Pete Dickey]

I must endorse Chris's comments about Swaledale which I attended last year. Brilliant socialising both Friday and Saturday nights including sore head/semi-state of conciousness Sunday (apologies Samantha). Terrific tutors as well who deserved a pat on the back for their patience and brilliance.

 

I even attended a class in Irish music playing as Mary Macnamara was the tutor and found it excellent despite being an English traditional music player. I certainly hope to be going again this year and would recommend it to all.

[geoffwright]

Although I still enjoy Witney (7th year?) and you get out of it what you put in, it fades into the background when compared to Swaledale or Folkworks weekend.

Nevertheless, it cannot be classed as unfriendly, as many of the same people go to all 3 weekends, it is the venue and the fact people are spread out over a busy town that cause many of the problems mentioned.

Is it time for a change of venue DT?

 

See you all at "Bodhrans at Witney".

[JimLucas]

[Witney] cannot be classed as unfriendly, as many of the same people go to all 3 weekends, it is the venue and the fact people are spread out over a busy town that cause many of the problems mentioned.

I thought that was the point. Not that the people are necessarily unfriendly, but that the organizational details don't encourage -- and possibly even hinder -- friendly interaction.

 

If you're new (to Witney, the instrument, or both) and those "same people" hang out with each other rather than making a deliberate effort to seek out and welcome newcomers, then they will appear "unfriendly". How often have you heard at Witney, "I don't know you. Is this your first Witney? Do you know where to go for lunch? Would you care to join me/us?" Ever?

 

At an event where everybody's together for meals, then even if the regulars take tables with their friends, the newbies can still be part of a group -- themselves, -- and if this happens, they will be noticeable to the old hands, at least some of whom will try to do something about it.

 

In my few times at Witney, I found it necessary to approach others to find a group or location for lunch, even though I already knew a number of those present. I knew them, but I wasn't a close friend, and many of them had selected where they were going for lunch, and who with, long before the weekend started, simply to be sure that they weren't left to the same uncertainty that I found myself in.

Edited February 2, 2006 by JimLucas

[Gerry]

One event I've not seen mentioned on c-net is the "melodeons and more" workshop organised by EATMT (East Anglia Traditional Music Trust). This event has a variety of morning and afternoon workshops and and evening concert by the tutors. I went for the first time last year and found the event to be friendly and relaxing. Had a great day and I'll be there again this year.

 

Any other c-netters going?

[Samantha]

I agree that with the concentration focussed on the classes, I found it difficult as a newcomer to make an acquaintanceship strong enough to base "where are we going to lunch" on at Witney on the Saturday morning. I do sympathise with the organisers who, having found a venue that largely works for them, may be unwilling to change it. One solution might be to provide a "buffet-style" lunch at the school premises, inclusive in the cost of the weekend, on the Saturday - this might be enough for newcomers and old-hands to establish more friendly links without changing, too much, the existing arrangements.

Samantha

[geoffwright]

Witney would be even more un-friendly if many of us hadn't corresponded via concertina.net first. It is great to put faces to names at Witney but I can imagine it is very daunting for someone who doesn't use concertina.net much.

We lunch at the Three Horseshoes and there is always an open invite to join Shelagh and self.

[spindizzy]

Witney would be even more un-friendly if many of us hadn't corresponded via concertina.net first. It is great to put faces to names at Witney but I can imagine it is very daunting for someone who doesn't use concertina.net much.

We lunch at the Three Horseshoes and there is always an open invite to join Shelagh and self.

 

Exactly! - I went there a few years ago and haven't been back .... the tuition was good, but everything is so concentrated that you don't get time to strike up acquaintances and I spent a very solitary saturday evening wondering whether anything was happening anywhere, and trying to find somewhere to eat that wasn't booked solid.

 

Chris

[Paul Read]

This would be great feedback if someone could get it to Dave Townsend

[Chris Timson]

This would be great feedback if someone could get it to Dave Townsend

I think so too. I originally started this thread with some trepidation rather expecting to be shot down in flames. It concerns me that I have so much agreement and very little contra points of view, so I had already decided to contact Jenny Cox (who I know, while I don't know Dave Townsend) and suggest she checks the thread out.

 

Chris

[gentians]

Thank you, Chris, for alerting me to this thread. I’ve joined the site in order to reply, having read with disappointment the postings about the event being “unfriendly”, particularly people who have travelled a long way..

 

I co-founded Concertinas at Witney with Dave Townsend in 1991 and am still a regular tutor. Dave Townsend is Director of this and the other Witney workshops.

 

From the start we recognised that there are two aspects to meetings and workshops for concertina players: 1) social – people meeting concertina enthusiasts, and comparing instruments, experiences, listening to each other’s playing. 2) musical and technical. In most parts of the UK it’s just not possible to find experienced players who can give concertina lessons (cf piano or flute players who can find a teacher in most towns). How can anyone sample a wide range of musical styles on their own? Concertinas at Witney is for musicians who want to try new things and progress.

 

So while we hope that the weekend is enjoyable – yes, and friendly – it is unashamedly a tuition weekend, for people to explore techniques, musicianship and musical genres.

 

Dave schedules focussed workshops (3 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday) so people have the opportunity to work closely with two tutors on areas of music and musicianship. He sends out music in advance. There are two “sharing” sessions where workshop leaders and players demonstrate what they have been studying, and a fascinating and unique concertina concert featuring the tutors on Saturday night, where a great range of musical possibilities unfolds before your very ears.

 

Yes, other concertina weekends are residential. This isn’t, leaving people B & B options ranging from sleeping in the car park to staying with friend, in a guest house, or a hotel. Samantha’s suggestion of a mid-day buffet we considered in the past – but it is just not practical. You couldn’t guarantee prepared food would be eaten, and who would organise it? Not the stewards, who work hard as it is.

 

The one and a half hour lunch hour allows time for people to eat (in the school or in Witney), socialise and play concertina. I’m surprised that some folk feel too shy to say “Who’s going where for lunch?” in the morning sessions. Maybe other people in the room were hoping you would suggest eating together!

 

One key thing I have learned in the 20+ years that I’ve been organising events, is that you can’t please all the people all the time. So, it’s a pity that a few people writing above did not find Concertinas at Witney to their taste, very many players do.

 

Me – I’m much looking forward to the Village Band Weekend (4th-5th March) - Mellstock Band – singing - Klezmer music – Wow! I know I will enjoy it. And yes, I’ll be a paid up punter sleeping in the car park in my small campervan.

 

Greetings to you all. Jenny Cox

[geoffwright]

A trip to Folkworks or Swaledale weekend might prove some of the above problems are not insurmountable (even though the Hexham hostel accomodation had a few failings).

But you do need a passport!.

[Theo]

Jenny

 

A couple of suggestions from experience helping to run Foilkworks summer schools:

 

1, nominate a time and place, eg at the end of morning or afternoon workshops for newcomers to gather, meet, and if they wish organise something between themselves. This is not an event in itself, the meeting place just needs to be an identifiable spot, not necessarily a room or anythine like that. It only needs to be done once, as early as possible in the weekend. Optionally delegate an oldhand with a friendly face to join them.

 

2, A buddy system for those who request it - match up newcomers with volunteer old hands. This does take a bit more organising.

 

I know from experience that the first time at a big event like this can give the impression that everyone else knows each other, and I'm left out. It depends on the personality of the newcomer too.

 

I do appreciate that you can't please everyone, but these ideas are tried and successful!

[Chris Timson]

I'm sorry, Jenny, but I do feel you are being a little complacent. I was hoping that the fact that so few of the "very many players" who apparently do like Witney were willing to rush to its defence would show that there are problems that need to be addressed. I'm afraid you'll find that even many of the regulars find Witney hard work (and I'm not talking about the tuition - that's supposed to be hard!).

 

I'm not asking for Witney to change into Kilve - far from it - but I think you and Dave need to give a bit more thought to the non-tuition issues. What about taking on the Friday night session as something that needs organising and including in the program? That would make Fridays much easier and more enjoyable. Theo's suggestions sound eminently sensible. So did Samantha's.

 

Here's another. Invite a local sandwich company to set up a stall selling tea and sandwiches in the main hall at lunchtimes, so that we the punters don't have to scatter round Witney looking for somewhere to eat that isn't already full. That 1 1/2 hours is only just long enough, and is in no way a restful break between lessons.

 

Chris

[rainer]

hi jenny!

 

as this discussion starts with a quote from me i'd like to add something.

i didn't want to say that "this event" - nor the people i met! - were unfriendly. for me that's not the point.

 

i actually was kind of disappointed. i think i expected something else. that's probably not your "fault". i tried to explain it to dave in an email when coming back. still the event was absolutely not useless to me. i was for example most impressed by alistar anderson's performance, never saw or heard him play before.

 

i'm not very experienced with concertina events, i have been to bielefeld several times and once to witney. but i think in smaller or maybe "younger" meetings it's more about the personal exchange and once the event gets big as witney the focus changes more to the classes and the concerts. the bielefeld meeting used to start with a big circle where everyone was charing something that he or she was working on trough the last year. the last time i was there they didn't do it anymore, the organizers thought there were too many participants...

 

what i took from all this is two things.

 

1. next time i come to england i will try to get some lessons from alistar anderson.

2. the next concertina meeting i will join should be a smaller one. like the scandinavian squeeze-in, if i could only find the time, jim!

 

so to me it's not about pleasing everyone but taking the decision where to go. and if you're on the way you want, go for it as soon as there's people to join you!

 

greetings from germany,

 

rainer.

[gentians]

Jenny

 

A couple of suggestions from experience helping to run Foilkworks summer schools:

 

1, nominate a time and place, eg at the end of morning or afternoon workshops for newcomers to gather, meet, and if they wish organise something between themselves. This is not an event in itself, the meeting place just needs to be an identifiable spot, not necessarily a room or anythine like that. It only needs to be done once, as early as possible in the weekend. Optionally delegate an oldhand with a friendly face to join them.

 

2, A buddy system for those who request it - match up newcomers with volunteer old hands. This does take a bit more organising.

 

I know from experience that the first time at a big event like this can give the impression that everyone else knows each other, and I'm left out. It depends on the personality of the newcomer too.

 

I do appreciate that you can't please everyone, but these ideas are tried and successful!