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Air Direction Lever?


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My inventing mind came up with the idea of an Anglo that had a lever that could be operated by the thumb to change the air direction ,so if one was playing a long run of pull notes for example and you ran out of air could you push a button to make the air direction carry on on the pull why you were pushing?

A mind bender if ever I heard one.

Al :blink:

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Alan,

 

I once thought upon similar lines for English and Duet concertinas but with valves automatically making the switch rather than manual levers - effectivly a full wave rectifier for air. It would take some thought and add weight to the instrument, but with and english or duet you'd cut out half the reeds thus reducing the total weight, and reducing the cost!.

 

As I only play anglo I didn't take it any further, and the idea of reversing the airflow on an anglo under lever control hadn't occured to me.

 

I would have thought it was feasible for an anglo, certainly worth trying out on a old 20 Key Lachenal or something.

 

I guess you'd have to have an isolated chamber each side of the reed board and the "reversing lever" would have to open one valve whilst closing another to switch the pressure/vacuum to one side or the other while opening the other side to atmosphere. Also the valve area would need to be big enough to support the maximum number of reeds you'd want sounding at once. And you'd probably end up with a lever on each end of the instrument.

 

So go for it. If I had the time its the sort of project I'd love to tinker with.

Nothing ventured nothing gained, as they say.

 

Clive

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Very interesting Clive ,I must admit also I had not considered the idea being used to cut the reed requirement in half for an English or Duet.It would also mean that

with a bit of additional thought a complete new octave range could be used in the space available.

We are on to a winner here Clive ,keep it a secret :ph34r:

Al

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Go to http://www.hgmitchell.co.uk/ , click Concertina then Blue Meany for photographs of a very unwealdy Duet which uses this "full wave rectification" system. It's owned by Neil Wayne in Derbyshire, UK. It's the only one of its kind that we know of. Amongst the photos you'll find a line drawing done by me to explain how it works.

 

Howard Mitchell

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I once thought upon similar lines for English and Duet concertinas but with valves automatically making the switch rather than manual levers - effectivly a full wave rectifier for air. It would take some thought and add weight to the instrument, but with and english or duet you'd cut out half the reeds thus reducing the total weight, and reducing the cost!.

Very interesting Clive ,I must admit also I had not considered the idea being used to cut the reed requirement in half for an English or Duet.It would also mean that

with a bit of additional thought a complete new octave range could be used in the space available.

We are on to a winner here Clive ,keep it a secret :ph34r:

'Fraid not lads ! :(

 

A bloke called Charles Wheatstone beat you to it, he even patented the idea back in 1844. :huh:

 

Wheatstone's 1844 Patent is online here, and the relevant diagram is Fig. 13.

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Thanks for the info Stephen and Howard.

This site never ceases to amaze me at the speed the information arrives.

It`s back to the drawing board then.

"You can stop designing it Alan we have made one".

"Still Great Minds Think Alike"

Good old Charlie

Al :)

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Howard,

 

Those are fascinating photgraphs, and prove that at least the duet version is technically feasible. Thanks for the link.

 

How does this beast actually perform? I imagine that those extra chambers must affect the tone somewhat, and what about the speed of response and weight? Obviously the idea didn't take off, so the idea must have had some problems, not least (I imagine) the sealing around the button shafts. I guess that 'Technically feasible' does not nessecarily mean 'desirable'.

 

Do you think the problems of this machine are something that could be addressed with modern materials and machining or is it more fundamental?

I suppose the killer problem for a duet on these princibles is the current lack of demand for duets (relative to the supply).

 

Thanks for the posting.

 

 

Alan,

 

Keep thinking! The killer idea is out there somewhere. Get the right idea and sell it to the global concertina community and you could make ...... well, not very much actually.

 

 

Regards,

 

Clive.

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Clive I actually think that it lends itself to the modern melodion reed plate design not in Charles Wheatstone original Patent. The lever could replace the air button which would be obsolete and a very interesting concertina would be the outcome.

Interesting does not sell in vast quantities however and that is probably the reason it did not take off.

I will repeat the little story of my trip to the Patents office following up an idea I had and there just about the same time as Wheatstones Patent was my idea drawn in exactly the same way and so similar as to be unbelievable.Another idea knocked on the head.

Al :blink:

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Well Al,

 

You could make every one who wanted your spiffy new CD buy the new AlanDay concertina. Then it would surely take off! (The concertina, the CD is already selling).

 

Helen who has crested the 1001 mark and had to use it to josh Al. :) :) :)

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Alan et al,

 

Another idea I had for the anglo once upon a time, and a much much simpler one, was simply to have two air buttons, one which only let air in and one which only let air out. Thus, if the bellows were getting too close you'd press the 'Air in' button, so that during a normal push/pull phrase you'd only take extra air in. Thus you could hold that air button down until the bellows had recovered to a comfortable state, without having to trying to snatch extra air just on the pull notes by deft thumb movements. Conversly if the bellows were getting too wide.

 

Just a thought. Not as interesting as the air reversal idea, but it might address the same problem, ie running out of air.

 

I'm sure that this one must have been done before and patented to the hilt, but just i case I'd like to register it here and now amongst the good folk of concertina .net!!

 

Clive.

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Another idea I had for the anglo once upon a time, and a much much simpler one, was simply to have two air buttons, one which only let air in and one which only let air out. ...

 

I'm sure that this one must have been done before and patented to the hilt, but just i case I'd like to register it here and now  amongst the good folk of concertina .net!!

Clive,

 

Yep, 'fraid that sounds an awful lot like Alsepti's "bowing valves" for the English concertina, though the purpose is different.

 

Alsepti's British Patent No. 8290: ‘Improvements in Concertinas’, applied for 8th July 1885, granted 8th April 1886, can be viewed online here.

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You sound as though your enjoying this Stephen.I think the next time I have an invention idea I will start with you and then advertise it.

Actually I am enjoying this too.

Now what if the air only went in one direction and the lever was only used to switch the airflow flipping the air intake in the opposite direction and what if???

Get your patents ready Stephen!!

Al ;)

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You sound as though your enjoying this Stephen.

Al,

 

Being familiar with a lot of patented musical devices over the last 250 years, I am often struck by the number of "ain't nothin' new under the sun" inventions that are dreamt up, and sometimes even patented and marketed. :blink:

 

Devices that spring to mind are the "hammer-jammer", a set of hammers to play your electric guitar, that first saw light of day as "Smith's Patent Box", for the English guitar, in the 18th century, and "roller" capos, that first came out nearly 150 years ago. :rolleyes:

 

Actually I am enjoying this too.

Now what if the air only went in one direction and the lever was only used to switch the airflow flipping the air intake in the opposite direction and what if???

Get your patents ready Stephen!!

The problem is that the more complicated you make things (especially valves !), the more likely they are to go wrong. I think that, at least so far, the verdict has been that such ideas are more trouble than they're worth . . . :(

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I can understand your enjoyment regarding Patents Stephen,on my visit to the Patents Office when doing my search two different subjects (totaly unrelated to mine)were running parralel.One was patents relating to plastic flowers and the other devices for pulling the bedclothes onto the bed.This was the funniest thing I have ever read and the devices were unbelievable.Imagine something like a scaffold tower erected around the bed with pully wheels cords and handles.I have never seen a contraption like it,just to pull the bed covers over you.This was only a small example of some unbelievable ideas.

I have ordered one. ;)

Al

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I can understand your enjoyment regarding Patents Stephen ...

It would have started on a more practical level, in my mis-spent youth (visiting the London auction rooms and antiques markets) finding all manner of strange "Patent" devices. But visits to the Patent Office, and study of the actual patents, have since proved very useful in unravelling some elements of concertina history.

 

... devices for pulling the bedclothes onto the bed ... the funniest thing I have ever read and the devices were unbelievable.Imagine something like a scaffold tower erected around the bed with pully wheels cords and handles.I have never seen a contraption like it,just to pull the bed covers over you.

It sounds like the kind of thing that the artist William Heath Robinson (who married one of Louis Lachenal's grand-daughters) might have dreamt up, I'm sure he would have had great fun with the idea ! :blink:

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How about a footpump with non-return valve, then you could pump some more air into the bellows if it was a "push" tune.

And if we also had an air-release footswitch for "pull" tunes, we could have a circular-breathing anglo.

 

How about that for a project, someone?

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