Does the duet have a great future... discuss?

[Irene S.]

As for linking to the clips.....Irene?? where are you.

At work, selling tickets for hot events (mostly films ) to customers in Guildford. I'm glad to see that Leonard managed to get you sorted! (Thinks, maybe we ought to arrange a workshop for you on how to do links! )

 

As for your comment about professional players, well, you are correct. 100 years ago, The Duet was the instrument of choice in the Music Halls, and various classical settings. Prince, Honri, and others made a fine living. Sadly, the music halls are no longer with us. But, you have to remember that the Duet was very expensive to buy in those days. I get the impression that only posh people could afford them.

 

The Lachenal price list for 1920 shows the Edeophone "Professional Model" 61 key, nickel top, nickel buttons priced at £26 12 s 0d. In todays money that would be around £3607 when you use average earnings as the means of comparison (somewhat less if you use RPI as the guideline - or more if you use other means). Whatever means you use to compare the value of cost at that point, they were not cheap to buy. So yes the "professional" models were certainly very expensive to buy and well beyond the means of the humble artisan. A 46 key rosewood lower range concertina with nickel buttons and steel reeds would have been about half that price - still pretty expensive though!

 

 

It would be interesting to know, just how many were made in the past, and I'm sure that a lot of them are just languishing in an attic somewhere.

Maybe Crane Duets are rarer because of their Salvation Army connection, and tend to become family heirlooms "We must keep that, Grandad used to play it in the band" sort of thing.

 

I suspect there may very well be quite a few languishing in the homes of people who harbour them for sentimental reasons . However, many of the more venerable old ladies would no doubt have "expired" due to natural wastage arising from wear and tear, and we also know from various examples (eg the recent Flog It tv programme and the English concertina which was retrieved from a skip) that some would have been thrown out because their owners had no idea of their value or what they were. Then of course you have the likely complete obliteration of some due to the effects of bombing during the Second World War, and in the case of the Jeffries bastardisation/transformation into Anglos. All of which give rise to a continuing dilution of the finite pool of available instruments of the older variety. Thinks - must check with my Aunt to see if that instrument languishing with her that great gran used to play in the Salvation Army IS a melodeon as I thought when I looked at it some years ago and not a Triumph/Crane

Edited January 18, 2010 by Irene S

[Irene S.]

M3838 said ...hopefully I'll see more exciting clips on Youtube.

Thanks.

 

It's not clear from what you've said exactly what Youtube videos of duet players you've seen so far?? Just in case they haven't crossed your path so far, you could try these for starters (although I couldn't guarantee whether you would find them exciting or not ... )

 

Robert Dawson on Crane

Marien Lina on Crane

Gavin Atkin on Jeffries

Jeff Leffert on Hayden http://www.youtube.c...u/5/kGKeglIQxx8

Ralph Jordan on Maccann http://www.youtube.c...u/7/tQDJ1ch_oFY *

 

* Re this one - the video is poor quality , and was taken by someone recording from the back of the room during a folk club floor spot performance last year. However, I've put it up as an example of Maccann used for accompanying folksong performance. Ralph never plays the same arrangement twice; and come to that I probably never sing the song the same way each time ... so in this instance it's a matter of adapting to what each other is doing and very much "in the moment".

Apologies to Ralphie (if needed) but I thought it was worth putting something up which was not an example of straight or quasi-classical. (And please excuse the singing!! )

Edited January 19, 2010 by Irene S

[Eric Barker]

I would like some more information about duet concertinas. I have been considering the Elise. What are peoples experiences thus far with the Elise?

I know they must still be in the breaking in the bellows stage, but I have recently heard a Rochelle playing in the Bozeman Montana session and it sounds great and plays well. My thought is that the Elise must be on par with the Rochelle. What are Elise players willing to share about their explorations in the duet world?

 

Thank you, Eric in Montana

[Daniel Hersh]

I'm generally happy with my Elise - it's a great instrument for the price. I would recommend it. The only problems that I've run into are the limited range at the high end (it just goes up to high A) and the two accidentals that are missing (G#/Ab and D#/Eb). I've generally been able to work around that by transposing tunes into different keys, but I do plan to move to a 46-key Hayden at some point.

 

I would like some more information about duet concertinas. I have been considering the Elise. What are peoples experiences thus far with the Elise?

I know they must still be in the breaking in the bellows stage, but I have recently heard a Rochelle playing in the Bozeman Montana session and it sounds great and plays well. My thought is that the Elise must be on par with the Rochelle. What are Elise players willing to share about their explorations in the duet world?

 

Thank you, Eric in Montana

[m3838]

Robert Dawson on Maccann

Marien Lina on Crane

Gavin Atkin on Jeffries

Jeff Leffert on Hayden http://www.youtube.c...u/5/kGKeglIQxx8

Ralph Jordan on Maccann http://www.youtube.c...u/7/tQDJ1ch_oFY *

 

OK, got it. Thanks.

Anymore anywhere?

[Irene S.]

OK, got it. Thanks.

Anymore anywhere?

Quite a few. I presume that you've followed the links from each of the videos in question? Additionally, you could try searching on Youtube for "duet concertina" "Maccann duet" etc .... it throws up quite a few different videos.

 

On the subject of recordings, I don't know whether you've been reading the Salvation Army recordings thread, but there is a link there to three recordings of duet playing at MF 269 and MF292 on

http://www.regalzonophone.com/RZ_78's_Page_2.htm

[tony]

 

Robert Dawson on Maccann

 

 

This one looks very much like a Crane to me. It only has five rows in each hand.

 

Or should that be five columns in each hand?

Edited January 19, 2010 by tony

[Irene S.]

This one looks very much like a Crane to me. It only has five rows in each hand.

 

Or should that be five columns in each hand?

 

You're quite right, of course. Don't know where the Maccann came from there!

Memo to self - don't post things late at night when tired.

I've done an edit on the original post just to make sure that's correct there. Thanks Tony.

[John Pearse]

Personally I cannot wait for Duet International to come out to give me more of an idea of the range of music played on a duet. I guess I'm one of the (Maccann) duet players playing in isolation - I have met 3 duet players in 3 years. Maybe I should get out more?

 

There are some interesting examples of Duet playing on the 'Concertinas at Bradfield' (Garland Films 2004) but there is no reference to it on the current website. The DVD is reviewed here:

http://www.concertina.org/ica/index.php/pica/subject-index/43-recording-reviews/104-concertinas-at-bradfield--this-label-is-not-removable--ghosts-and-lovers--the-lewes-favourites

 

However there is the Rueben Shaw video.

http://www.garlandfilms.co.uk/reubenshaw.html

 

A few more snippets of duet playing - try 'On the Street where you live' ... (there seems to be quite a lot happening in there), or Jakanapes Polka or Buffoon.

http://www.herbertgreene.net/ on the Music Downloads page.

[Alan Day]

One of the most interesting players on Duet International will be Maurice Harvey son of the late Jim Harvey ICA Secretary.

Young Maurice started playing at a very young age and although his recordings are from an old cassette I am certain that you will be amazed at his playing. My personal opinion is that he is the best Duet player ever, but you can decide for yourselves.

The cassette when cleaned up could be enough for a CD.

I met Maurice at his home at Chelsea around the corner to the barracks. He was up in his bedroom and had completely given up the concertina in favour of a guitar. I do not know whether he is alive or dead. He suffered with Polio as a teenager and never played again after he recovered from it. The recordings that we have are recorded when he was between twelve and fifteen.

He was a member of the Westminster Concertina Band and we have two recordings of the band that included Maurice.

I have attached a Zoom recording of an uncleaned cassette recording of his playing as a taster of what he could do. What he would be like had he carried on I shudder to think. Turn your volume right up to listen.

Al

[PeterT]

What he would be like had he carried on I shudder to think.

 

Just goes to show that there's no substitute for quality. If I had heard the recording, without your notes, I would have guessed the musician to be aged 45+, and having played for at least 20 years.

 

It's good that these recordings exist. You can never assume that a young musician will fulfill his/her potential. Life is full of potential pitfalls and distractions. I guess that we have to be glad when a musician does have a full "career", and be greatful for some recordings when this does not happen.

[Dirge]

I don't have the benefit of your researches Al, but my limited listening has left me with a few impressions; I have been privileged to hear the Maurice Harvey recording and I use the word advisedly. The other 'oldie' who seems particularly breathtaking is Herbert Greene; his recordings have some amazing 'filling' going on.

 

Alexander Prince, on the other hand, on the few tracks I've heard, seemed to rely on his backing band to fill out the sound and I have yet to hear anything impressive by him. I don't doubt he COULD play technical stuff, given his reputation. But it seems he didn't need to, to produce the effect the public desired at the time.

 

There are a couple of his pieces in the ICA library, and they, too, are very stripped. In this case they are professionally typeset (I think) and I wonder if they were sold for people to play on the parlour piano in the same way as a modern 'artiste' carries CD's arround to sell to the audience? If so it would explain why they are so basic feeling.

[Alan Day]

I don't have the benefit of your researches Al, but my limited listening has left me with a few impressions; I have been privileged to hear the Maurice Harvey recording and I use the word advisedly. The other 'oldie' who seems particularly breathtaking is Herbert Greene; his recordings have some amazing 'filling' going on.

 

Alexander Prince, on the other hand, on the few tracks I've heard, seemed to rely on his backing band to fill out the sound and I have yet to hear anything impressive by him. I don't doubt he COULD play technical stuff, given his reputation. But it seems he didn't need to, to produce the effect the public desired at the time.

 

There are a couple of his pieces in the ICA library, and they, too, are very stripped. In this case they are professionally typeset (I think) and I wonder if they were sold for people to play on the parlour piano in the same way as a modern 'artiste' carries CD's arround to sell to the audience? If so it would explain why they are so basic feeling.

You have of course hit on the great future debate as who was best and I should not have voiced my opinion on it. I have been listening to Maurice play for a couple of days and I just marvel at how good he was, but it is a personal choice. I have some recordings in that are simply played, but very enjoyable and sometimes a good simple arrangement can be just as interesting as a recording that has loads going on and technically brilliant.

Al

[Chris Drinkwater]

One of the most interesting players on Duet International will be Maurice Harvey son of the late Jim Harvey ICA Secretary.

Young Maurice started playing at a very young age and although his recordings are from an old cassette I am certain that you will be amazed at his playing. My personal opinion is that he is the best Duet player ever, but you can decide for yourselves.

The cassette when cleaned up could be enough for a CD.

I met Maurice at his home at Chelsea around the corner to the barracks. He was up in his bedroom and had completely given up the concertina in favour of a guitar. I do not know whether he is alive or dead. He suffered with Polio as a teenager and never played again after he recovered from it. The recordings that we have are recorded when he was between twelve and fifteen.

He was a member of the Westminster Concertina Band and we have two recordings of the band that included Maurice.

I have attached a Zoom recording of an uncleaned cassette recording of his playing as a taster of what he could do. What he would be like had he carried on I shudder to think. Turn your volume right up to listen.

Al

 

Blimey, Al. You are trying to convince us that this is Maurice Harvey playing a duet concertina? I have to be honest and say that the sound produced, sounds more like a Gavioli & Cie fairground organ, rather than a concertina. Maybe that's down to the nature of the recording. Great playing though.

 

Chris

[Ralph Jordan]

You have of course hit on the great future debate as who was best and I should not have voiced my opinion on it. I have been listening to Maurice play for a couple of days and I just marvel at how good he was, but it is a personal choice. I have some recordings in that are simply played, but very enjoyable and sometimes a good simple arrangement can be just as interesting as a recording that has loads going on and technically brilliant.

Al

 

Couldn't agree more, Al

Part of the joy of your boxed sets are the enormous variety of styles therein contained. The very fact that they're compilations also means that the musicians, of whom, there is little recorded output (I'm thinking of Andrew Blakeney-Edwards, who sadly I never heard playing), manage to get their music out to a wider audience.

I think the problem lies in semantics.

You can say that you LIKE something more than something else.

But you can't really say that something IS BETTER than something else.

Every player is different, and as I said in an earlier post, quite a few of us started playing pretty much in a vacuum, compared with the other 2 systems.

That is why the Duet CD set is potentially fascinating. The instrument lends itself to so many different playing styles, and I for one am really looking forward to all of it!

Ralphie

[Alan Day]

You have of course hit on the great future debate as who was best and I should not have voiced my opinion on it. I have been listening to Maurice play for a couple of days and I just marvel at how good he was, but it is a personal choice. I have some recordings in that are simply played, but very enjoyable and sometimes a good simple arrangement can be just as interesting as a recording that has loads going on and technically brilliant.

Al

 

Couldn't agree more, Al

Part of the joy of your boxed sets are the enormous variety of styles therein contained. The very fact that they're compilations also means that the musicians, of whom, there is little recorded output (I'm thinking of Andrew Blakeney-Edwards, who sadly I never heard playing), manage to get their music out to a wider audience.

I think the problem lies in semantics.

You can say that you LIKE something more than something else.

But you can't really say that something IS BETTER than something else.

Every player is different, and as I said in an earlier post, quite a few of us started playing pretty much in a vacuum, compared with the other 2 systems.

That is why the Duet CD set is potentially fascinating. The instrument lends itself to so many different playing styles, and I for one am really looking forward to all of it!

Ralphie

Thanks Ralphie we now have 43 potential artists for the collection, it must have reached a probable 3CDs by now. Many different styles. I made the mistake of trying to do Duet with English and it got very messy and has taken a lot of sorting out but it is now really taking shape.Many of the old players were not recorded, but not everybody had recorders. It was also that players were taken for granted and many thinking their playing would be of no interest to future generations.

We nearly all have recorders now so there is no excuse. These Internationals and many of the older players boxed sets thanks to Neil Wayne, are laying a foundation for what can be achieved on the instrument and that sets a standard for future players.

Us older Anglo players started in a vacuum, scratching around for ways to play the thing, then along comes JK and I am still trying to catch up.

Al

[Ralph Jordan]

Us older Anglo players started in a vacuum, scratching around for ways to play the thing, then along comes JK and I am still trying to catch up.

Al

You think you've got problems. I'm trying to catch up with Iris Bishop!!

[Alan Day]

Us older Anglo players started in a vacuum, scratching around for ways to play the thing, then along comes JK and I am still trying to catch up.

Al

You think you've got problems. I'm trying to catch up with Iris Bishop!!

Get yourself a knitting machine !!

Al