Jim Besser Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Another take. I wanted something a little more subtle than my usual Morris dance thumping. Sounds great. But why did you frame the image so that all you can see is the bellows (pretty as they are) with the ends and hands for the most part out of view? You're right, of course. Chalk it up to neophyte video skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) So here we go, I just uploaded my first take in order to get feedback on whether a "Schottische" might as well be played in the manner that came to my (somewhat uneducated as to dance types) mind... Here is what one Expert and teacher of tradtional music in central France has written in a book about playing the Vielle (Hurdy gurdy).. about playing the Scottishes: "Usually in the Centre of France the tempo used is 88 or 90 beats per minute. the spirit of the dance or the inexperience of musicians can sometimes increase the tempo but this is not advisable. People from the South take their time and they may slow down to 78 beats. On the other hand, the Scottish in Central France allows great rhythmical flexibility for the musician. nearly every piece written in 4/4 time, played at the right tempo could be used for dancing the Scottish." (J.F. Maxou Heintzen) In other words if my rendition sounds a bit like a Polka it could be because I have not tried to use this piece for dancers.. YET. Wolf, I think that you are putting in more notes than you need to in the way of chords. It sounds as if you are thinking "now I need a D7" and it arrives ' en masse' which then sometimes gives the next impression that you are running out of air because you have too many reeds working and then the flow of the tune can get disturbed. I hope you don't mind me saying this 'in public' but I thought it could be usefull to others as well, and you being a lawyer would be used to people saying things directly, in public . Geoff. Edited June 9, 2013 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) I hope you don't mind me saying this 'in public' but I thought it could be usefull to others as well, and you being a lawyer would be used to people saying things directly, in public . Of course I don't! Any advice is highly appreciated, and you are one of the guys I'd expect to be able to give me some... I think that you are putting in more notes than you need to in the way of chords. It sounds as if you are thinking "now I need a D7" and it arrives ' en masse' which then sometimes gives the next impression that you are running out of air because you have too many reeds working and then the flow of the tune can get disturbed. When listening to my TOTM renditions (and other soundfile tracks) in a line I have to say you're right that my approach on "La Lune" has obviously produced a particular "dense" chording. This has happened without intent, not as you say it sounds like I don't reflect that much on chording, it's more like occurring to me... and I was of the opinion that I don't (and didn't) include more notes than necessary to produce just the sound I want to hear within the flow of the tune. As to running out of air: I hadn't been aware of this as well. The bellows of my Excelsior are comparatively small, and I have to considers this throughout my playing - but I think it can be done without forced restrictions in the chording (albeit I agree on not wasting air for needless notes). I believe it is rather some nervous rushing (albeit having some air left in the bellows). Having said that, I'll go back to the tune with your remars in mind. OTOH: Do I get you right that the pace is alright (albeit differ quite a lot from yours)? Again, thank you for the attention you paid to my playing, Geoff! Best wishes - Wolf Edited June 9, 2013 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Do I get you right that the pace is alright (albeit differ quite a lot from yours)? Checking you pace against my metronome would suggest that you are closer to the ideal mentioned by "maxou" that I am... however , it all dépends on the region and the dancing styles... so Yep you are in the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Do I get you right that the pace is alright (albeit differ quite a lot from yours)? Checking you pace against my metronome would suggest that you are closer to the ideal mentioned by "maxou" that I am... however , it all dépends on the region and the dancing styles... so Yep you are in the frame. Perhaps this is due to my limited knowledge of the English langue - or just an ordinary misunderstanding? As to "pace" I had meant to refer not just to tempo but rhythmic subleties as well (maybe I had equestrian pace in mind...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 As to "pace" I had meant to refer not just to tempo but rhythmic subleties as well (maybe I had equestrian pace in mind...) Oh...! You mean 'gait'.... the (or a) specific rhythm of movement ... thus the 'within the Bar' emphasis, length of notes/ stress etc. Hmmm...........all very difficult to describe and put into words, even in one's own language. I would say that the 'Scottish' dance, in France, has a fairly regular, or straight internal rhythm, regular note lengths 1-2-3-4 with the emphasis on the 1 which can be made by either slightly shortening it and leaving a lengthened gap between 1 and 2 or by making the 1 slightly louder.. or perhaps both of these devices together. But then that is me trying to describe what I feel... I could be wrong too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Barnert Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Your observation about the E minor is of course absolutely correct. Thanks for pointing it out; I should definitely change the left hand score to include a note native to E minor! You have included two notes native to E minor. Unfortunately, they are both also native to G major, and neither of them is E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAc Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Your observation about the E minor is of course absolutely correct. Thanks for pointing it out; I should definitely change the left hand score to include a note native to E minor! You have included two notes native to E minor. Unfortunately, they are both also native to G major, and neither of them is E. True again. You're pretty diligent and observant, that's great. FWIW, I include the updated score. I also changed the harmonization in the second part of La Luna slightly which gives a nice bass line. Now all I have to do is put that into music... As for the parallel conversation between Wolf and Geoff: I agree with Geoff's assessment and would like to add that running out of air due to too many open sound holes is one of the major problems I did encounter (and still do) when I picked up the concertina - part of the reason being that my first concertina was/is a small six fold Lachenal which can store even less air than my big Wheatstone, so losing out on volume is more of the major issues there. Kurt, Jody and others back then pointed out to me that the obvious solution is economy - leave out chord notes. In Wolf's recording I sometimes have the feeling that the melody gets overpowered by too many notes... parsons farewell_la luna.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) In Wolf's recording I sometimes have the feeling that the melody gets overpowered by too many notes... I have revisited my playing of "La Luna" and found that I am sticking just to "my" open fifths for most of the time. In any event, there are rarely more then three notes sounding at a time (with the one exception of - dominat - Dmaj, where I seem to tend to adding the low A and the F#). OTOH my musical "thinking" certainly is harmony-orientated (and therefore possibly with more frequent chord changes as usual), and aside from that I had that fiddle sound in my ear all along, and thus wanted to play the way I'm presently following even prior to the EC having come into my view. Nonetheless I'm thankful for the critique. Since I can't deny you the perception as reported I will have to minimize the collateral damage or side effects of my approach for my own benefit. Edited June 10, 2013 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellowbelle Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Aren't you all so lucky, heh heh, I'm just learning how to use Garage Band. So at the time, I have one primitive rendition of La Luna Dins L'Aiga. My daughter may be adding a bass part later, if we can manage to work it out. I can't upload a .m4a file here, but I just put it at SoundCloud. I'm not saying this is very good or very 'accurate!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Collicutt Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Three quick videos all recorded with one take! Anglo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YggeLp-Y-G8 Bass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjd7kmq1ZiU Treble: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHZ7VSwtn-Q Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Treble: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHZ7VSwtn-Q Interesting version with those sustained notes...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 Three quick videos all recorded with one take! Anglo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YggeLp-Y-G8 Bass: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjd7kmq1ZiU Treble: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHZ7VSwtn-Q Nice. Love the bass! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 (edited) Albeit apparently not having made friends through my approach to this tune (and some other?) I'd like to provide a second take, which had been made * with Geoff's critique in mind * without changing much of the arrangement * but firmly targeting the melody * whilst playing the tune a bit more confidently than I did some days ago. Furthermore, I recorded it less directly but with the same notebook mikes. Again, any comment is appreciated. Edited June 13, 2013 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Ooooo.. I doubt you lost any friends BES... and I'm happy that you are open to suggestions so here is mine for today; Play the piece at a speed that is constant, well as much as possible, because it is a dance tune and ultimately one would need to give dancers a 'Measure' to dance to.... so what appears to be happening is that you slow down or 'stop for a breath (mentally)' when things get complicated or at the end of a part or phrase before commencing encore. So , try playing at a speed that allows you to complete the course 'on time' with no complexity forced hésitations. Sounds better though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Ooooo.. I doubt you lost any friends BES... and I'm happy that you are open to suggestions so here is mine for today; Play the piece at a speed that is constant, well as much as possible, because it is a dance tune and ultimately one would need to give dancers a 'Measure' to dance to.... so what appears to be happening is that you slow down or 'stop for a breath (mentally)' when things get complicated or at the end of a part or phrase before commencing encore. So , try playing at a speed that allows you to complete the course 'on time' with no complexity forced hésitations. Geoff, thank you for the further advice! Albeit I am of the oppionion that some hesitations have been made voluntarily in order just to avoid even too early proceeding with the next phrase (whilst others may well be directly complexity-forced, as you say) I will slow the whole thing down until supremacy is won! Best wishes - Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Next bit; try leaning backwards on the rhythm so that notes do not arrive at the listener's (or dancer's) ear before they are expected, as if you are moving forward but dragging something that causes a tension on the rope ... like arriving at the beat point by overcomming the resistance of a break... no perhaps that does not describe what I mean..... hmmm certainly not as if the notes are stumbling or rushing forward and make a tune sound as if it is being played in a hurry..... I don't know... it's just words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Next bit; try leaning backwards on the rhythm so that notes do not arrive at the listener's (or dancer's) ear before they are expected, as if you are moving forward but dragging something that causes a tension on the rope ... like arriving at the beat point by overcomming the resistance of a break... no perhaps that does not describe what I mean..... hmmm certainly not as if the notes are stumbling or rushing forward and make a tune sound as if it is being played in a hurry..... I don't know... it's just words. That defintely makes sense to me - reminds me of the advice of our choir leader regarding the support ("Stütze") of tones being part of a descending phrase... Thank you again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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