Accompany Song

[Kelteglow]

Hi All .I often play just cords on my C/G or D/G Anglo to accompany my singing. I can also play melody with cords and sing. What I would like to learn is to to play what I think is called ,"counter melody" ie play a different tune to what I am singing but I don't know how to go about it. Any idea's ? Bob

Edited November 28, 2011 by KelTekgolow

[michael sam wild]

I'd listen to Brian Peters, John Kirkpatrick and Andy Turner etc first either tunes or song accompaniment . Then stick to notes in the same direction and do a descant. If you make some chord diagrams on a duplicated button map it might help.

Also get some choral pieces that will show the notes that harmonise above or below the tune. I use local carol s from South Yorkshire where there is a strong harmony tradition in the pubs. Cornwall and Welsh too?

 

Gerald of Wales wrote in the 13th C that the celts of Yorkshire and Wales loved singing in parts. 3rds and 5ths sound good.

[Kelteglow]

I'd listen to Brian Peters, John Kirkpatrick and Andy Turner etc first either tunes or song accompaniment . Then stick to notes in the same direction and do a descant. If you make some chord diagrams on a duplicated button map it might help.

Also get some choral pieces that will show the notes that harmonise above or below the tune. I use local carol s from South Yorkshire where there is a strong harmony tradition in the pubs. Cornwall and Welsh too?

 

Gerald of Wales wrote in the 13th C that the celts of Yorkshire and Wales loved singing in parts. 3rds and 5ths sound good.

Thanks Mike , but what do you mean by "descant" ? Bob

[cboody]

Descant is another name for counter melody. I just published a book of melodies with descants earlier this year. I've a friend who writes lovely descants.

 

As to how to do it: If you know the chords you can shift from note to note of the chord while avoiding the note being sung and generally moving in the opposite direction of the melody (That is as the melody goes up move the counter melody down and vice versa). Once that gets things going you can add non chord tones on the "weaker" beats (like 2 and 3 in 3/4 or 2 and 4 in 4/4). Then you'll discover that when the melody has a long note you can put in a bunch of notes and when the melody is moving quickly you can hold a long note. Most important: willingness to make mistakes, and if you play with others willingness on their part to put up with your learning curve. Before long you'll discover things that work and you'll be on your way.

 

Finally I would not describe what Gerald talks about as descant (though the term discantus from his era might have meant what he describes). Singing the same rhythms as the melody and moving in parallel with it is really creating a harmony part and not a descant.

[michael sam wild]

,.Decorative variation sung as accompaniment to basic melody,' Harper Collins Concise English Dictionary. Fairly all encompassing definition.

[JimLucas]

Thanks Mike , but what do you mean by "descant" ?

For what it's worth (which may not be much), whenever I've seen a part labelled as "descant", it was always above the melody.

[Boney]

Thanks Mike , but what do you mean by "descant" ?

For what it's worth (which may not be much), whenever I've seen a part labelled as "descant", it was always above the melody.

Yes, this Wikipedia article says "Hymn tune descants are counter-melodies, generally at a higher pitch than the main melody." But also, "by the Renaissance, descant referred generally to counterpoint. Nowadays the counterpoint meaning is the most common."

[ceemonster]

with anglo, the freedom to do counter-melodies is limited. knowing this helps you not go bananas or blame yourself while trying to find the scope within which it IS possible on anglo. you can do it a bit in a couple of keys, and you can kind of hint at it. but to really truly do it, you need a different kind of a beast. a unisonoric beast.

[cboody]

Thanks Mike , but what do you mean by "descant" ?

For what it's worth (which may not be much), whenever I've seen a part labelled as "descant", it was always above the melody.

Yes, this Wikipedia article says "Hymn tune descants are counter-melodies, generally at a higher pitch than the main melody." But also, "by the Renaissance, descant referred generally to counterpoint. Nowadays the counterpoint meaning is the most common."

I think Wikipedia is wrong here, unless they mean that the counterpoint meaning is most common in music history textbooks. I've not seen descant referred to where it meant anything except counter melodies (and almost always above the melody in pitch) in any musical references after the 18th century, and perhaps anything after the 17th century. And, prior to that time the meaning was different in different eras and places. Granted, I've not kept up with recent scholarship, but I would not expect this issue to change much.

[michael sam wild]

I agree with Jim, as a kid we sange a higher part. Why is a descant recorder so called, was it part of a recorder consort. Is it the highest one?

[Wolf Molkentin]

Why is a descant recorder so called, was it part of a recorder consort. Is it the highest one?

AFAIK, the "descant recorder", AKA "soprano recorder", transposes from "middle c" (c1, soprano voice) to c2 (and above, of course).

 

In consort playing it may be the highest one, combining with "treble/alto" (f1), "tenor" (c1) and "bass" (f0, transposing downwards from f1 notation). So this will augment evidence that "descant" means (higher or) highest.

 

Nevertheless, there a recorder types above the descant/soprano: the "sopranino" (f2, also transposing); well known as a solo instrument esp. for this beautiful piece of music:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W82MIsoCAU

 

and the "garklein" (c3), if you like those "dog whistle tones", which might remind us of the "extended treble" range of the EC in its charakter.

[michael sam wild]

Maybe descants were sung by boys or castrati in church choirs. Sopranino would be smaller and high pitch . nino = little one or child.

[Wolf Molkentin]

sopranino would be smaller and high pitch . nino = little one or child.

Fancy idea for an ordinary diminutive...

[SteveS]

... castrati ...

Ouch!!

[Jody Kruskal]

Hi All .I often play just cords on my C/G or D/G Anglo to accompany my singing. I can also play melody with cords and sing. What I would like to learn is to to play what I think is called ,"counter melody" ie play a different tune to what I am singing but I don't know how to go about it. Any idea's ? Bob

 

Hi KelTekgolow,

 

Since you play the Anglo, there are some easy ways to get those harmony lines that enhance the melody. 3rds, 6ths, octaves and 10ths are all available on both sides of the instrument. Adjacent right hand button harmonies are particularly easy. If you would like me to show you how, PM me for a lesson.

[Kelteglow]

Happy New Year to All.Sorry I am so long in replying now got new PC.

Thanks Jody I will take a lesson with you soon .I have only just got my C/G back from Colin Dipper 35 Keys so I want to relearn my key options also I am practicing arpegio,s for the keys of C,G & F.I also have read on Concertina com "Faking it" I have yet to understand how a fake book will help?However New Years resolution is more practise,And finally can I thank everyone on this site who are helping me in my efforts. Thanks Bob

[hjcjones]

with anglo, the freedom to do counter-melodies is limited. knowing this helps you not go bananas or blame yourself while trying to find the scope within which it IS possible on anglo. you can do it a bit in a couple of keys, and you can kind of hint at it. but to really truly do it, you need a different kind of a beast. a unisonoric beast.

 

Somewhat belatedly, I have to disagree with this statement. A counter-melody is only a different tune from the one you're singing. There's no reason why you can't do this on an anglo. The only limitations are those which apply to playing any tune on the anglo. True, it does depend on your singing key being anglo-friendly, but the same applies to simple chord arrangements.

 

It does require a bit of mental effort to play one tune and sing another, but that applies to any instrument.

[Boney]

with anglo, the freedom to do counter-melodies is limited. knowing this helps you not go bananas or blame yourself while trying to find the scope within which it IS possible on anglo. you can do it a bit in a couple of keys, and you can kind of hint at it. but to really truly do it, you need a different kind of a beast. a unisonoric beast.

 

Somewhat belatedly, I have to disagree with this statement. A counter-melody is only a different tune from the one you're singing. There's no reason why you can't do this on an anglo. The only limitations are those which apply to playing any tune on the anglo. True, it does depend on your singing key being anglo-friendly, but the same applies to simple chord arrangements.

 

It does require a bit of mental effort to play one tune and sing another, but that applies to any instrument.

I think Ceemonster was referring to playing a melody and countermelody simultaneously on the Anglo, not a countermelody to a line that one is singing. I think that's what Jody was talking about above too.