Mustafa Umut Sarac
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Interests
Bandoneon and owning or making my own
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Istanbul - Turkey
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Mustafa Umut Sarac's Achievements
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I want to make a mouth harp with hohner accordion reeds online store. My goal would be a mouth harp with warmer , not tight bandoneon sound. I will try to close to bandoneon. My question , do all accordion reeds at that store comes as pairs or are there singles. And other question what is the difference between piano side reeds and button side of reeds ? Are pair reeds octave apart ? There are too many hohner accordion reeds online , which ones for bandoneon sound ? Thank you, Mustafa Umut Sarac Istanbul
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Lets talk about enginering. Please answer as you like . What is the longest bandoneon reed lenght ? What would be the lenght of octave apart cousin ? What would be the thickness of zinc ? What would be the widths of the reeds ? What would be the 3d printed combs margin around the one reed ? What would be the distance of two reeds ? What would be the airtight gap tolerance and margin of the comb ? Where can I find desired thickness of the zinc plate ? What would be the air volume around the two reeds ?
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Hello there, I researched 3 subjects in last 6 years, Bandoneon , Harmonica and Jews Harp. I saw a russian jews harp invention where lamella pitch and vibrating lenght was adjustable with a gun trigger like apparatus. Gun trigger controlled apparatus was changing the vibrating lenght of lamella. I thought it would be possible to do the same to one pair of longest bandoneon reeds. Reeds could be made from zinc and nano coated for moisture and there would be a resonator from laser cut plywood , comb would be 3d printed and you can change the pair of bandoneon reeds vibrating lenght with gun trigger. You can blow and draw like an harmonica. I read some harmonica players can play a diatonic harmonica in 12 keys. This can be possible also. And what is wrong to use two pairs or 10 pairs ? But let keep it simple and nano sized. Production is easy with 3d printers and zinc plate can be machined by laser or water jet. Nanocoating can be done with violin varnish. Mustafa Umut Sarac Istanbul
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Hi from Istanbul, I am writing with bigger fonts for tired eyes. I wanted to own an mouth harmonica with bandoneon reeds and I found that aeolian is a better and easier to make at home - Zinc reeds corrodes with water and I am thinking to coat with extremelly thin organic polymer or plating with a metal. What is the best material ? - I dont know how to find the tune , pitch of a cut zinc plate. And I want to own long bandoneon reeds. Can you help me to create minor harmonic scale reeds measurements and thicknesses. -
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http://www.britishpathe.com/video/concertina-factory-aka-concert-in-a-factory I attached an video and two screen shots. Please have a look to upper left images. There are two cigarrette packet size , concertina buttoned , mouth wind powered instruments. Can anyone tell me the name of these wonderful instruments ? . I can try to buy and construct with one with bandoneon reeds , if there is a reed or reeds.. Thank you, Mustafa Umut Sarac Istanbul
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Tom, tempered glass is excellent and the aluminum. There is a school at gamelan making called american gamelan , all uses aluminum , other school uses steel. You can make % 65 of gamelan orchestra from cut flat panel metal. Steel is cheapest. This is solved long before us. But the problem is making the large resonating pots which is size of a large cooking pot and fully closed. My main concern was not gong but the pots. Thats why I wanted concrete or grp. I am sorry , I missed to tell. I need to find a material which will able to do the job. .
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Hello again Tom, By the way , if we want to add another stress to tempered round cut sheet glass with glass fiber epoxy composite, what would it be needed for thickness selection. There are variety of glasses everywhere , even bronze colored glass for architecture use and later tempered at moderate size glass shop within oven. Is it true , low damping factor of tempered glass would amplify the top bronze or brass ratio grp coating ? Or is this the fully wrong way ? Thank you, Umut
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Hi Tom, These are wonderful ideas. Congrulations. If we will try to temper the glass , no need for that, there are tempered glass sheets are available at glass factories and they cut the glass with water jet for any desired shape.And they can temper any glass. I learned from your link , glass have even lower , half the damping factor compared to bronze. Do you have an idea , how this plate sounds finally ? I have an idea with this plate below. There is Tiffany glasses at USA from 19th century , they gave the glass exact golden sheen by carboxylic acid:) Thermosets would be used when the glass fibers inside and glass fiber would shadow the infrared lamps to reach in to middle inside of the mass. I dont know when there is no compression physical source on to plate , I dont have idea if there would be a different timed heating curing would gain stress. I think there would be no difference between different timed cured epoxies. They will cure to same now or later. I am giving special attention to above because only material have bronze or brass ratio . Here is the second option below, There is a possible solution ,placing factory tempered glass at the back and hitting surface would be epoxy and glass fiber mixture. This would apply extra compression to glass - after epoxy cured and streched - and correct giass reinforced plastic would sound like brass or bronze. I think extreme low dissipance of glass would amplify the brass bronze modulus density ratio grp at front. I think there is a third option to strech glass fiber epoxy HALF THE GONG THICKNESS plate with mechanical means and streched plate would be coated with grp again to keep the stress , after second coating cured What do you think Tom ? Thank you, Umut Istanbul
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Glass fibre - - 0.1 Hz 0.l-16 Damping Bronze 0.2 Damping Glass fibre have one of the lowest damping factor and your posts indicates it has wonderful ratio close to bronze and nearly same as brass. And Glass fiber and epoxy is widely available worldwide and lightweight and cures in few hours. Tom , of course I want long ringing material. I am sure , your concrete and earthquake example was dang point , concrete wont ring. Now , there is a big problem to solve. Gongs are made of sheet of bronze but they do need to store internal energy like guitar string and gongs are hammered hundreds of times to store internal energy. How one can build a glass reinforced plastic prestressed. Thank you Tom, umut istanbul
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Tom , thank you very much for your all effort to solve problems and educatng us. You are right , concrete must absorb the energy to protect us. I think glass fiber and polyester or epoxy widely available worldwide and when comparing their price and bronze price plus paying to workforce and to the masters makes fiberglass suggestable even for indonesia. I think with experimenting with different composite databases , it would be even possible to find bronze matching FRP recipe. And they dont absorb the energy also. May be if the glass rowing or more expensive rowings are bad for instrument - some warns about it - it would be possible to add to liquid plastic some titanium dioxide nano powders or aluminum di oxide nanopowders - extremelly cheap and widely available both - or carbon fiber powder - not expensive like carbon rowing - or some epoxy fiber additive powders could help. Do you think rowing fiber is a must and do rowing makes everything worse ? And do you know powders solve the fiber orientation problem ? Another glass fiber is made with chopping. Which is makes sense ? Thank you , umut istanbul
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Tom, Lets talk about bronze and same modulus/density FRP. My friends asks me if the modulus density ratio is the same , the fundemental frequency is the same. They asks me what will be the harmonics and their sustain for each different. I read your post on concertina reeds and as fas as I understand , you defend every characteristics would be the same. Is it true ? Is total mass of the gong would be the same also ? Or is it not important ? What makes bronze does not dissipate energy ? I learned carbon fiber or more exactly epoxy does not waste energy when hit ? Is it true for e glass epoxy laminates ? Thank you, umut
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Yes, Keep it going. I found concrete can be more interesting for indonesia or southasia. Do you know gamelan instruments ? If you want to give a complete concert , you should collect 1500 kilograms of bronze instruments together. It makes 4200 libres. Americans made american gamelan starting from 1950s, and used thick aluminum cut by a grinder. Today , if you buy 4 , 600 cms x 150 cms , 6 mm thick aluminum , for industrial laser cutter , its a 1 hour business. But lets keep the costs less and there are vase shaped bronze instruments cant be made with machine but can be cast in silicon mold with concrete. I dont want to go in to kevlar , carbon route. If you have money to buy them , you would not interested in this thread , you order from indonesia and your patron would pay it. Concrete , there are two cheap fibers for it , glass fibers and steel fibers. In Istanbul , if you want to buy glass fiber , there are two class , e class and s class. e glass is electric glass and far cheaper. E glass , one kilogram is 4.5 dollars in rowing form , 1 kilogram is 1 square meters. But glass fiber is extremelly sensitive to humidify and touch. If you buy unpacked old glass fiber , you can expect , it loses its % 60 of strenght. Steel fibers are cheap but shorter the fiber , better the strenght. It must be around 3mm long but here , they sell 25mm long fibers.here. Steel fibers are like an needle and it looks concrete like cactus , dangerous thing. Concrete , better the concrete , less water inside , smaller size the powder particles and mica powder is a must. You must use plasticizer inside. And there are reactive concretes , many many times stronger.
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Hi Tom, Thank you very much for sharing such years of researches with me. I am thinking 150 cms , 60 inches diameter and 3mm thick gong. I am criss crossing in various forums and I shared your modulus divided by density post. here is the reply from an gong maker: Congratulations on figuring out how to make something from 2 different materials have the same dimensions and fundamental resonant frequency. But this is only a small part of the whole picture. Does it have the same mass? What is the ultimate tensile strength? What is the elongation factor? What is the proof stress? What is the damping factor at various frequencies? Is your concrete reed able to vibrate with the same amplitude without falling into pieces? Does it have the same sustain at the fundemental? Does it have the same sustain at the various overtones?